Discussion - English Roadsters

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Congratulations on your marriage, Stephen. I am sure that you and your Indian Roadster were the talk of the town. Good thing that the screws didn’t fall out of the rod brakes, or you might have gone sailing past your bride. (Just kidding, of course.) I also congratulate you on your efforts to import some practical bikes. Here’s an idea that could possibly increase your sales. Have you thought about letting someone in the Morman Church (Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints) know about your reasonably priced Forever bikes? Most of their male missionaries ride bikes. Years ago, they used to ride English 3-speed bikes, but now most of them are riding mountain bikes. I don’t know if the missionaries buy the bikes individually (I suspect that they do) or whether they get any price breaks on them through their church or certain dealers. Since they ride mostly on city streets, wearing long pants and white shirts and in all kinds of weather, I would think that a good 3-speed sports bike with fenders, good caliper brakes and a 3-speed hub would be ideal for their use. Of course, being young men who grew up with mountain bikes, they might not realize that a sports type bike might be more practical than what they are used to. They might find the good prices attractive, however, especially after they have had one of their mountain bikes stolen as so often happens.

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My latest find came Saturday at a small bike show in Indianapolis. It's a 1956 woman's Humber with full-cover chain guard, cable brakes and a rear hub that is a combination SA three-speed//Dynohub generator. There's also a storage battery (I think) in a case that's bolted to the post beneath the seat and wired to the generator. I assume that was to allow the lights to burn when the rider was sitting still. Is this bike anything unusual? I hadn't seen one quite like it before. The back hub is massive; it must weigh five pounds.

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Kent: From what you wrote about the eyelets and the serial number, I agree that your Huffy was probably made by Raleigh. Cheers!

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Many thanks to Trond et al. of Cyklus for expressing kinship and support. Ah, Norway, the land of fjords and Elkhounds, Ibsen and Munch, Odin and Thor, and, dare I say, VIKINGS! A mighty people. Alas, I would love nothing more than to revel with you in your most admirable pursuit of creative anachronism, but I am, truth be told, a mere middle-class American mortal, who cannot well afford to travel to Europe more than once or twice in a lifetime. And my time is not now, my friends. But if you ever pack your roadsters into longships, let me know! I'll greet you at the northern coast with a bonfire and feast!

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I've started a small webpage on the DL-1 on my website at http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus. The only useful content so far is a drawing of the frame geometry of the bike, which I made while measuring the frame, which turns out to be tweaked. I've straightened the bars, but it turns out that I need to do some frame alignment also. No pictures yet, but they'll be forthcoming also. Could someone with a 24" gents' DL-1 make an accurate wheelbase measurement, please? (Any reference, like crank spindle center, to front axle center is fine, because I realize the rear wheel can be moved in the dropouts...) Thanks!

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Some of the other things Raleigh-made bikes share are the unique BB cups with the raised square purchase; of course the different thread count on the cups and headsets...24 tpi versus 26 tpi I think. Also there is very often an engraved or stamped motif found on the top of the stem or the face of the crankarms. What is that anyway...it looks like a sheperd or a monk standing beside a dog. I certainly don't think it's the Raleigh Heron. If it is I'm gonna blame it on the 70's.

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Randy: I measured my DL-1 and the distance from the center of the front axle to the center of the crank shaft is 26.5 inches with a possible error of .06. due to using a steel tape measure. I'm interested in your efforts to straighten your frame & forks since I have a nice ladies sports that is so far out of kilter I can see it clearly and feel the pull. There is no sign of damage at all.

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I'm having a problem with the hub on my 1969 Robin Hood. The crank turn whenever the rear wheel moves resembling a fixed gear. I tried the obvious solutions of loosening the chain, loosening the bearing adjustment on the left side, and lubing the hub. It seems to shift just fine, but something is definitely wrong. Any suggestions? THANKS!

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Jim, you might try checking the right-side bearing clearance. Back off the left-side bearing clearance a couple of turns. Back off the right-side locknut and lock washer, and turn the bearing cone finger-tight. Then back it off 1/4 turn, and align the flats so that the lock washer will engage (--not more than 1/4 more turn!) Then go back and adjust the left-side cone. The right-side cone is adjusting both the wheel bearing and the driver bearing clearance. If it is too tight, it is one factor that could cause the drag as you experience.

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Thank you, Fred. My CAD layout says 22.33" from crank spindle to front axle. I'll confirm that this evening after I finish aligning the fork and reinstall on the frame (temporarily! I'll still need to align the rear triangle before I reassemble the bike.) I don't know what the factory tolerance was for such a "derived" measurement, but it certainly sounds close to me. And no, my DL-1 didn't show any obvious signs of damage either (i.e. wrinkled tubes etc.) Years ago, I was rear-ended while riding my International (hit-and-run; never found the guy), and it bent the rear triangle to the side so far that the tire was rubbing on the chainstay, without knocking me off the bike. (I guess my reflexes were pretty good back then...) But I had the frame aligned and rode it for several more years (was capable of being ridden hands-off after the alignment).

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I confess that I am new to this site and don't know if there has been discussions about the model I have. It is a 1960? ten speed Double Blue with aluminum bars w/scrolling design -- Campagnolo rear gears and cage pedal clips. I've been reluctant to repaint it though the old paint is in poor shape. Anyone out there have any info on this one??? jp

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Thank you!

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Oops, meant to type "26.3" above. And the actual measurement is closer to 26.4" BB axle center to front wheel center. At least, as far as I can measure without the bike actually together. I'm sure that is within manufacturing tolerance. A long rod passed through the axle hole is parallel (again, as well as I think I can expect) to the fork crown. I'm going to call the fork "well enough" and move on to the rear triangle. It is interesting, though, that on my fork, one of the axle holes is drilled off-center of the dropout, and the axle slot is also not centered on the hole itself. Also, the curve of the fork blades is not quite identical on both sides. But, the axle ends up in the right place (laterally, also, it seems now...)

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This morning I rode downtown with the local club. I was on the DL-1, and it received several compliments and admiring glances. They liked the two-tone bell, which really does let people know you're coming through. The friend who has those alleged British bike magazines, with a "consumer report" type article in one comparing modern city bikes and an old Raleigh, told me he'd really bring the magazines next week. He added that it has a regular "retro" feature which, natually, addresses things like SA mantanence, etc. During the lunch hour, I rode the Forever (which I keep stashed at work) on an erand for my wife. I rode across downtown in furious traffic, and over a mile or so of choppy brick streets in our "German Village" area of town. Nothing came loose, and the Forever handled well. On the way back to work, I stopped at a thrift store. They has a 1950s ladies J.C. Higgins, with tank and rack, but it didn't tempt me at all. I'm sticking with British (or at least close copies).

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Kevin, I feel that the Humber is a good find.If it were a 28 inch wheel rod brake bike it would be worth more.However because it has the full cover enclosed chaincase,is a Humber (and not the common Raleigh)and also that it has the D.B.U. kit (Dry battery kit) which is seldom seen.It is a lucky find. I believe it has the Humber double fork which is a favorite of mine and a great conversation starter. This is a cool bike!! Have fun with it, show it off, but please get a Kryptonite U-lock for it.The rear hub is a A.G. three speed or a F.G. four speed. (The F.G. is worth more, more desirable)It has lights huh?Great!!

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I suggest you buy a book at a used book store and read a bit about how to adjust the A.W. three speed. I believe your cones are too tight, but you need to get down into a good bike repair book, Go to the big library and ask for Sutherlands Repair manuel.Welcome to our growing group of English bike lovers, you have a cool bike.

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On the way to the beach, I spotted an old Phillips, it was leaning up against a barn, was about to be put at an upcomming yard sale. It is a 28 inch roadster and the house was on Sheldon road!

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Hey guys (n' gals) I don't know how far back all of you go back, but quite a while ago I picked up a pair of bicycles- one is a men's 28' rim rod model, like our DL-1's. This is a world warII BSA with the Lucas blackout light and generator and rear rack, plus it still has it's Victory rubber tyres and the bike rides well, though the bars are as narrow as a Forever's. It rides as well as a Dl-1. The other is a just post war Phillips and is a women's model, it has the 26" rims though and still has it's red tyres. This has the aroogah horn, and the bars are a little bent, but it's a rod model too! I thought that was slightly odd for a 26". Anyways, I'm going to England in September, adn I'm a Graphic Designer so I don't make much money and I need to sell them as a pair as I promised the previous owner- they were his Parent's bikes, but don't know what to ask. What do you guys honestly think? I know what the Dl-1's are worth, as I have a his n hers, and know how much people will ring you for one. I don't want to be one of "them" but I need to fund this. Any ideas? I'm coming under crunch time and I'm selling stuff so my trip is enjoyable, though I don't want to sell either. Cheers Chris

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Clarence--Thanks for the info on my "new" Humber. You know your stuff -- it DOES have the double-rod front fork, as you suspected, plus a fork lock with pins that drop into holes in a plate. What a curious old beast!

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If I tell you about a dumb thing I did will you be kind and remember the boners you have pulled? Thanks, here's the tale. Last week I went to my storage loft and brought down a very nice ladies Raleigh with the S3C coaster brake hub and did a total maintenance job on it. I wanted to quiet down the pawls in the free wheel so I pulled the cog end off of the hub, cleaned everything up and lubed the freewheel with grease. When I re-assembled the bike I found that I only had 3rd gear. Since I hate to do anything over I set it aside. This afternoon while polishing a Fuji on the front porch, I looked down and right there between my feet was a right axle nut for a S-A hub. Thats the thing with the cross hole in it and the radiused end for the indicator chain to run against. Of course I knew right away where it came from. Guess how many gears I had when I installed the nut. Right, I had 3. Now if I just had the forks straightened out.

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Warren wrote: here is very often an engraved or stamped motif found on the top of the stem or the face of the crankarms. What is that anyway...it looks like a sheperd or a monk standing beside a dog. That is Sir Walter Raleigh holding his fancy cloak over the mud puddle so that Queen Elizabeth might step on it and avoid soiling her shoes. This is a famous anecdote from English history...it may even be true.

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Hey all You roadster fans!!! It's been a while, but I'm back in style on what will soon be a S-A FW 4-speed Forever Roadster (thanks Randy!). To all you out there who might be considering buying a Forever from Stephen I say do it!!! Then you can use all your extra parts laying around making it a 'Forever Roadster Superbe'!! some interesting discussions going on, most notably the adjustment of S-A hubs. I've noticed postings that say "screw the RH cone down finger tight & the back off 1/4 turn." All the the S-A literature I've seen and read( for AW hub) has always stated at least 1/2 turn, but NEVER more than 5/8 of a turn. If you don't want the pedals to walk around whe the bike rolls forward, 1/4 of a turn isn't going to cut it, I've tried. Also check the LH cone adjustment & make sure it isn't too tight. Anyway, cheers everybody!!!

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Wes, my statement of "1/4 turn plus not more than 1/4 more to align the flats" is the way I've always done it. The 1954 service manual says "Screw R.H. cone home until it is finger tight, then unscrew it half a turn and secure it with the special lockwasher and locknut. On no account must the cone be unscrewed more than half a turn or the correct setting of the gears will be affected." My method guarantees that you don't pass the 1/2 turn "absolute limit" (which is also called out in the 1977 AW and 1979 S5 brochures I have), and allows for the fact that the flats don't usually line up right at half a turn (and has always worked for me...) As long as you realize 1/2 turn means *no more than* half a turn, that's fine also! :-)

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Thanks for the explanation, Sheldon. Coincidentally, auction 138255672 on eBay right now (which I have no connection with) is an older Raleigh oil can with a little clearer illustration of the logo.

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In the last day, I've come to the conclusion that my "new" Tourist was bent at some time and *almost* straightened. After laterally tweaking the fork blades, it was still bothering me that the rake wasn't symmetrical on them. On further examination, the right-hand blade was slanting forwards just a bit from the very top, and someone had reraked the tip to compensate. So this noon, I reworked it with the aid of a bar clamp, several blocks of Delrin which I had machined rounded grooves in, a sturdy vise (which happened to be mounted on a large milling machine, which facilitated) checking with a machinist's square. The blades are now symmetrical along their length, and the right-hand one is raked just a little more to compensate for the mis-drilled axle hole in the dropout. After work, I aligned the chainstays laterally (muscle power only, the bottom bracket being held in the sturdy vise), and tweaked the seatstay assembly to fit as well as possible. When I got home, I did a minimum assembly (wheels, handlebars, seat) and proceeded to "Fred Flintstone" the bike up and down my street to see if it would ride "hands off". I wasn't able to get it up to a decent speed to do so, given my very rusty "hands-off" skill, but then I got the bright idea to let the bike run on its own. It must have looked comical, with me running along pushing the bike by the saddle and then letting it go and coast on its own. But, the good news is that it did--only gusts of wind perturbed its path down the street. It has no bias to the right (or left, for that matter). So on to the cleaning and reassembly!

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Just to make it clear, I kept running alongside the Tourist while it was coasting on its own... I checked the final fork blade alignment by putting a long 3/8" diameter rod through the axle holes and sighting along the fork crown. I didn't take the fixed cup out, but made a little aluminum block with a slot in it to just clear the projections. I notice that the S-A front hub doesn't have the original axle or axle nuts. And a question: whoever installed the baby seat removed the original screws that held the seatstays to the rear dropouts, and used 10-32 screws *passing through* the threaded lugs in the dropouts. Are the original screws hex-headed, like the screw that holds the front fender to the fork crown?

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Another take on the engraved logo seen on stems, cranks, etc. on Nottingham Raleighs and clones: I've heard this called the "Raleigh Man at the Forge", indicating this to be a well dressed individual at an old forge, and with some imagination you can see he has a hammer raised in the air. Has anyone else heard this? I have an old Raleigh bell and the image is pretty clear on that. I hope everyone is beating the heat all across the country and getting out on the bikes a little bit. Took the African Roadster out yesterday and despite the 90 degree temperatures, the laid back ride and low cadence were "cool". Bill

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The puzzle is coming together. Clarence, who lives somewhere near a beach, finds an old rod-brake Phillips at a garage sale, on Sheldon Road (they ought to name a city after him as well). Sheldon, some time back, found an abandoned ladies rod-brake roadster. Here, in central Ohio, I had never seen a bike with rod brakes until I got my DL-1 at a garage sale. I think that was a fluke. Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but were most of the DL-1s and other roadsters originally imported to the East Coast, where they were purchaced by Ivy League professors and other erudite folk (people sophisticated enough to appreciate them)? In contrast, did the lowbrow middle of the country simply fail to import them, opting instead for Chevys, Harleys, and Schwinns? Randy -- you set DL-1s up in the 70s -- where? How many a year? Who bought them? I'm in an area awash with nice 26" sports bikes, but 28" roadsters are apparently very very rare. Let me know where they are. I'll move.

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I've got a Torpedo Dreigang hub ( looks like an AW) that I'd like to make into a fixed hub. Is this possible? Also, how does one change the size of the chainring on a Sport or a Sprite if the ring is welded to the crank? I found my DL-1 in Dallas, truely a freak of nature.

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Just last weekend one of the guys that works in a bike shop in Tulsa picked up a 1920's era Phillips single speed with rod brakes and a double top tube. It was very rusty, but very salvageable. A little bit of jury-rigging had taken place on it over the years- when the link from the back brake lever to that little bell-crank broke, a piece of wire became the replacement, only the would-be repairman of the past set it up so that when you grabbed the front brake it operated BOTH brakes at once! Anyway, my mid-50's Raleigh catalog has an almost full-page color picture of the Sir Walter Raleigh logo. The way the picture looks almost makes it look as though the logo came from a statue. On the back cover of the catalog is a picture of the interior of (I'm guessing) the main entrance to Raleigh's offices. Standing between two columns is what appears to be a statue of the same logo.

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Keith--I worked at Mr. Bike in Lincoln, NE (the state capitol and University of Nebraksa, about 150k people at the time and overall pretty flat). We sold maybe 2 or 3 Tourists per year, and always had one assembled and prominently out on the floor. As to who bought them, I don't know--I was mainly a back-room mechanic. (I won't mention the first time I rang up an item on the cash register and punched in $2900 instead of $29.00...) We sold quite a few Sports, though--it seems 3 or 4 per month. But nowhere near the derailleur bikes, even though we tried to promote the Sports for general riding around and errands. We always replaced the rear sprockets on new Sports with 22T or 24T while we were assembling them--I think the 24T were Bendix.

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right after I asked that qusestion I found my answer in Sheldon's Do It Yourself section.

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Rod brake models aren't too common in the Southeast, either. I remember seeing exactly two in a shop in Carrboro, NC, back in 1975. The third one I saw was the '77 I bought in 1981, and how it got to Greenwood SC I'll never know. There was a fourth one in a junk shop in Greenville five years ago, and they were only open once. I didn't have the money, the shop is gone, and who knows where that bike has gone to? Having said that, my Dawes surfaced in Anderson, SC, so go figure. I see very few older nice bikes in this part of the country, unless I run into their original owners who got them somewhere else. Mostly what I encounter are 70s and later machines, including a fair number of ragged out Raleigh and Hercules bikes. The only exception to this is Hercules. I've found several old, old Hercs, but they're usually too small and/or ladies frames.

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I have a project in mind that needs a frame. I would ideally like a Rudge Sports men's frame, about 23-in or so size. This only has to be serviceable, not beautiful. Other frames are considered okay for this project, too, but I'd like something other than a standard Raleigh with the thimble-crown fork crown. Anybody got a project they'll never finish with a suitable frame? I can even offer a complete bike in trade ...

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Speaking of double top tube frames with rodbrakes, and images of Sir Walter, are there any discussion room regulars here who make frequent trips to Mexico (from the U.S.)? Being a mid-westerner, I rarely see rodbrake bikes. So when I visited Mexico I was overwhelmed by the fact that I couldn't find a bike that didn't have them. The locals couldn't get over how hilarious it was to see a gringo taking pictures of their dusty old work bikes. Also while in mexico I happened uppon a Mexican tobbaco version of Raleigh cigarettes. this was a wonderfully flavored tobacco (especially when compared to U.S. Raleigh smokes [yuk]). So if there is anyone here who frequents Mexico (via truck?), then you may want to consider importing bikes and smokes (assuming this is leagal, of course). It could be profitable.

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Northern Michigan is sand-road balloon-tire country, so DL-1s are practically non-existent. And yet I recently managed to acquire one anyway. The bike has been hanging on the wall of my local bike shop for several years, but the owner didn't wanted to sell. He decided this month to give up the shop and move his business to the internet and sold me the 1974 DL-1 for $100. It only needs a good cleaning and thorough service. I also own a Pashley with the 5-speed Sprinter hub, so look for some comparisons in ride quality, etc. soon. I already get plenty of favorable comments about the Pashley, so I can imagine what I will hear while riding the DL-1.

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I have been following this discussion for a while now --- great stuff!! I have had a variety of cable brake bikes over the years but just purchaced my first rod brake machine, a 1979 mens 24" DL-1. I purchased it from a college professor in New Jersey (standard profile for DL-1 owners) who bought it new. It was auctioned on eBay but the winning bidder turned it down when it was discovered that the right crank arm was bent. As the second highest bidder I gladly paid $125 for the bike that was otherwise in very good condition. Questions: When was the last DL-1 imported to the U.S.? Early 80's maybe? When was the DL-1 model first listed by Raleigh? Regarding chrome quality in the 70's, my rims don't have the deep luster present on some componants on my 1953 Raleigh Sports, but they must be "triple chrome" as evidenced by a couple of small copper patches in the path on the brake shoes. The enamel cleans up wonderfully and responds great to Meguirs "show car glaze". It looks like black porcelain! The pin stripes or lining is unfortunately only about 50% there--is this common? When did Raleigh eliminate the extra "legs" in the front sprocket? My '53 has them but the '71 and '79 do not. Wanted: Nice seat bag, Head and tail lite for dyno hub, Rear reflector for DL-1, original air pump(s). I also have a ladies Gazelle from '55 which has made by Raleigh stickers on it. I think someone indicted that Robin Hood replaced the Gazelle in Raleighs' lineup in the '40's. I do have a mid 50's catalog that shows the Robin Hood as the "low priced model" Any ideas? And finally, cable brake bikes are very available in southern Maryland where I live. Part of the reason is a large Amish population who until just recently seemed to use english 3-speeds exclusively. I have seen more MTB's being used lately which really ruins the whole image!

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I have a 1940 Releigh sport three speed with a genarater in the hub of the weel can you tell me what it's worth? Thanks Ron

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Hey Ron- I would say it depends on wether it's a blackout bike (no chrome) or a chrome model, and what condition it's in! they can go from 100 dollars to a grand (so I've heard) I haven't seen anyone who i sthat crazy/generous to spend that much. I think it's worth what you would pay for it, adn what it's worth to you. Are you trying to sell it? If it' sreally ridable, you should just ride it. I have a blackout BSA just like a Raleigh, and it's a great bike, but it's VERY original, it just has new tubes. Original tyres, adn I have to tell you it worries me to ride it just up and down the street. On the other hand I take my Dl-1 Raleigh to work constantly (6mi). So I think if it's a collecotr type bike that goes out once in a while, it's worth probably more if it's original otherwise if it's a beater, ride it! that's my 2 cents.

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Thanks to those who responded about what's in their various regions. I'm still betting the East Coast got 85% or more of the rod brake bikes. Ohio actually has the largest Amish community in the world -- bigger than Lancaster PA -- so that gives me a great idea for a place to check thoroughly! By the way, while checking out the August 1999 National Geo, I noticed one pic taken in China, page 133(?) with a near definate Forever in the background -- decal shape, bell, dimpled forks visible -- and a second pic (page 33?) with a young woman rod brake bike. Forever owners -- check me on this. Our non-British claim to fame -- the bike the rest of the World rides.

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Dennis, did you buy your Pashley new or used? Are they sold anywhere in the U.S., or did you buy it in Canada or England? (I'll call myself Paul M. from now on since there is another Paul in the group now.)

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I just ran across a British company called Classic Transfers (http://www.vjmc.com/classic.newsno1.html) who advertises reproduction decals/transfers for British motorcycles and bicycles. Their newsletter mentions large Raleigh Heron Head emblems for L3.00, which sounds very reasonable. They encourage email inquiries for specific models and years, and have a catalog available for the price of an SASE. I've emailed them about DL-1 decals, and to let them know about this discussion group and the decal requests that come up here. (Sorry if this isn't new news, but I didn't see their name in the archives...)

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Paul, I bought my Pashley (Prospero Sovereign) new through my local bike shop. I found it on the net at www.eskimo.com. Dekker Services is the company that imports them and they only deal wholesale, so you need to find a cooperative bike shop owner to order it for you. They are pricey. Mine cost $1,000. After taking my first ride on my DL-1, my advice is to buy a Raleigh if you can find one and save a bundle. What the Pashley has going for it is the 5-speed SA Sprinter gears and the all-weather drum brakes. Other than that, I find the DL-1 to be lighter, livlier and faster.

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Hi there everybody! A few years ago we all became obsessed with fat tires of one sort or another. And ever since, a lot of perfectly good servicable bikes went and are still goiin g into the landfills and scrapyards. A lot of them , some really nice English and other 3 speeds. I am most likely more aware of this than some. You see, I run a bicycle junkyard and I brake these bikes up for parts and sometimes it's really sad. Almost like the peopple at the S.P.C. A. who have too many animals and have to put some of them down. The sad fact is, I can't even give some of these bikes away because everybody is in love with fat tires and anything else is considered "not cool". I manage to recycle some of them for parts to the few people that still ride 3, 5, 10 speeds. But it's the M TB and BMX parts that pay the jbills. For a while now, I have been trying to save the old Raleighs and other 3 and 5 speeds. I am happy to see classic old bikes are making a comeback. My first job was delivering telegrams for the C.P.R. in Vancouver, Canada, on a CCM bike with a 3 speed S.A. Hub. It waas a little harder to go up hills wiht than some of the 5 speeds I have ridden but it was completely troublefree. I rode it for a number of years, then I gave it away to a kid and he rode it for years without any trouble. Why can t they build cars like that? Or washing machines or anything? I now have jseveral Raleighs and other 3 speeds and 5 speeds. My favorite is a sort of copper coloured Raleigh 5 speed because it's easier on the hills and I am not in as good shape as when I rode for the C.P.R. in 1957. Now I have a couuple of questions about one, a lady's Columbia 26x 1 3/8ths wheels S.A. 3 speed, a lady's Firestone 26x 1 3/8ths wheels, shimano 3 speed, and on the chainsguard it says "volks cycle". Are they worth saving or should I break them up for parts? Any info. would be appreciated. Anyway, keep on loving and cherishing these great old bike, I have a feeling thkkey will be around a long time after all the fat tire stuff is melted down and turned into Hyundais. Does one rally need an MTB with front and rear suspension to go to the store for a quart of Milk? Ernie Bikes on Boundary 4990 Boundary Road, Chilliwack, BC Canada V2R 5H9 604-823-6882

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Don't laugh, but is there any hope that someone out there has a spare handlebar stem from a Raleigh Twenty (folding or fixed frame). I discovered that my eBay bargain has a bent stem, so it doesn't fold up too well. I'd say two out of my three eBay bikes have been disappointments: I'm not sure the sellers were intentionally hiding facts, but I'm also not sure how well they know the bikes they're selling - caveat emptor! Thanks for your help. Nick

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Dennis, thanks for the additional information about your Pashley (Prospero Sovereign)and how you were able to order it. Sounds like a great bike with its 5-speed Sprinter hub and drum brakes. But, as you said, it is not inexpensive.

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Ernie: I have a Firestone Volkscycle also. Mine is painted in a medium blue metallic and is in fine condition. I bought it at a Salvation army store 4 years ago. My wife rode it all winter in Florida in 1987-88 and liked it very much. I have pondered the name "Volkscycle" and wondered why a thoroughly American bike had that name. The fact that it had Vredestein tires seemed to indicate a certain foreigness but I find that brand is not uncommon here. Anyway, to answer the question; "will it ever be worth anything?". Probably not in $ terms. It is about the quality of the better Huffy, Murray etc. 3 speeds of the 70's & 80's. As for your abundance of unwanted English multi-speeds, a lot of us wish we had that problem. Isn't there someway of getting these into the hands of those who appreciate them?

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Greetings from the UK - first a specific question - can anyone tell me the largest frame size used by Raleigh for the Superbe ? I'm thinking of the 28" wheel Gent's models from the '50s. I'm long in the leg and I am looking for the largest available. I think it was 24.5" - if anyone could confirm this, or has seen a larger frame, I'd be be grateful if they could let me know.I'm pleased to have found this site, and if anyone can direct me to any UK sites covering older cycles and Roadsters I'd like to hear from them. In my experience there is no great interest in these bikes as collector's pieces here in England - you see a fair number of 60s 3speeds and quite regularly much older bikes in daily use, but they are workhorses that keep on going due to their inherent build quality rather than cherished machines. There is an interest here in old bicycles, but generally much older machinery - Penny-farthings, vintage Sunbeams, quality older sports bikes, and prestige marques pre-Raleigh ownership. Another question - I think I've figured out a Forever is a Chinese roadster, but what is a DL-1 please? I can also vouch for the beauty of Dutch bikes - I go to Amsterdam once a year and am always struck by the antiquity and grace of lovely old bikes, often in terrible condition, heaped together by the dozen. You can get a re-conditioned bike in an Amsterdam bike shop for £100 upwards. Sweden also makes some stately roadsters. We have more bikes than space - 1918 Sunbeam, '63 Dunelt, '65 Moulton, '78 Raleigh Superbe, Claud Butler and Saracen sports tourers and both my sons have small Raleighs. regards, Pete.

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Pete, it is interesting to hear from someone in the UK. If you are interested in seeing some of the Forever bikes look at www.bikeproject.com/ The importer describes them as, "...essentially Chinese versions of the English Raleigh DL-1 Roadster made to iron age standards." As to the DL-1, I'll let one of the DL-1 owners tell you when that was made, how it differs from a Superbe, etc., because I am not sure.

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Pete, the DL-1 is THE classic "English Roadster", also known as the Raleigh Tourist, which I think you are probably familiar with. It has rod actuated brakes, 28" wheels, and laid back (68 deg) frame geometry. This is opposed to the more common (at least over here) Sports models which have cable operated brakes, 26" wheels, and more lively frame angles. The model DL-1 appears to have been made at least from the 30's through the early 80's, and there are rumours that it is still being made in/for use in Africa! This is likely the model that you want if you are tall since it was made with a 24" frame. A 22" frame was also offered. I think the Sports models were only offered in 19", 21", and 23" frame sizes. The Superbe that most riders in the States recall is basically a Sports model fitted to a deluxe specification which typically included a fork lock, dynohub, maybe a full gearcase, and a classy green paint job. I think the roadster model was also offered in the Superbe specification although it is much less common over here. See Sheldon Browns' web site for a picture of an early 50's example. Hope this helps! I am a relative newcomer to the DL-1 world myself and welcome corrections from other DL-1 owners.

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Pete, One more thing, DL-1 is a Raleigh model designation. I think the Sports was DL-22 and the Superbe (Sports) was DL-24. I suppose the Superbe version of the Roadster (a.k.a Tourist, a.k.a. DL-1) had it's own unique designation too.

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Just noticed (3) "Raleigh Tourists" offered on ebay. You have to search under Raleigh Tourist, not Raleigh Bike or Raleigh Bicycle. Seller wants to sell all 3 as package. Current bid about $450!!!

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For those of you able to reach the 49th parallel there's an interesting vintage bike meet up at Lake Erie next weekend...check out the details at www.cyclesdeoro.com/old_t_races.htm

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Yes, I'm the high bidder so far, and am praying the bid doesn't go up much higher. I'm interested in the one gents' frame, and would plan to resell the ladies' and the bike I can assemble from the best bits of the third "parts" bike and my current one.~~I went out for the first ride on my DL-1 yesterday afternoon, only about a 10-mile round trip, but a wonderful ride. For about a mile, I was paced by two great white herons, fairly common in this area but not as common as the egrets. The ride would have been longer, but unfortunately I developed a slow leak in the rear tire, which turned out to be a split at the base of the valve stem. Since I haven't gotten a frame pump yet, I was reduced to pedaling home very gingerly to avoid bouncing on the back rim, and easing my weight forward for any bumps. The worn chrome on the rims definitely makes the brakes grab, and the horrid Schwinn matress seat was very uncomfortable, but otherwise the ride was very nice, and the bike definitely tracks hands-off.~~The wind was blowing 20-25 miles per hour (it always does around Rio Vista) and I discovered a quartering tailwind does not help as much as a quartering headwind hurts...

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While I was keeping tabs on the flattening rear tire yesterday, I noticed that the Tourist's bottom bracket is really wide (something that had escaped me during the rebuild). In fact, it's 74mm wide--ideal for the Dursley-Pedersen semi-replica project I have on the back burner. Does anyone have (or know where there might be) a spare DL-1 bottom bracket axle? I already have an extra-wide lugless bottom bracket shell I can cut down to 74mm to work with it.~~(I'm using the ~~ for paragraph breaks, since this discussion input box filters out HTML.) By the way, are all Tourists set up for left-hand-rear-brake? I didn't really pay attention when I tore apart the handlebar assembly, but reassembling with the pullrods inboard of the bellcranks (as seems proper), the "forward" (outer) rod ended up on the right brake lever.

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Randy, On the DL-1 bars, make sure the bellcrank with the longer arm (and greater mechanical advantage) is used for the rear brake. I've seen the rear set up on both left and right levers. I've found the rigging critical for good operation of the rod brakes. All along the "brake train" make sure everything is set up to give the most mechanical advantage and movement. That pivot at the base of the head tube is especially important. You mentioned you bid on those DL-1's on E-Bay. I see they are in Tempe, and from the looks of the email address, it is the Bicycle Store that is selling them. I bought a DL-1 there several years ago and it is giving good service. The owner of the shop was a good natured fellow from South America, Argentina I think. I saw the DL-1 in the corner of the shop, he had put new rims and tires on for a customer and then the bike was never picked up, so I talked him out of it, although he didn't give it away. He has two shops in Tempe and they almost always have some used 3 speeds for sale, for about $75. I wheeled the DL-1 through security at Sky Harbor Airport and had the baggage people load it last on top of all the other luggage, and it made the flight back to Denver unscathed (I am fortunate to work for an airline). Good luck on your bidding and enjoy those bikes. Bill.

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Thanks for the reply, Bill. I took a quick trip down to the garage and yes, the longer bellcrank/lever is on the left-hand lever, which actuates the rear brake. Actually, that's the only way it does work--otherwise the front brake would foul the rear linkage. And thank you for pointing out the "mechanical advantage" aspect of the rear linkage. I did remember from my Raleigh shop days, that you can move the two frame-mounted cranks, along with their connecting rod, by loosening both binder bolts and adjust the linkage for best leverage. I'm replacing the rear valve stem (I always have saved the metal valve stems from inner tubes I replace, and they can be used to fix just my problem--leak at the valve stem base--by carefully cutting out the molded-in stem) and plan to take the bike into work tomorrow and take some digital pictures for my webpage. Thanks for the good wishes on the auction!

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Many thanks for the explanations of Forevers and DL-1s. I'm not familiar with Raleigh model designations, but mine is a 3 speed with rear dynohub dated 78, with rod brakes, 26" wheels, full chaincase, fork lock, 23.5" frame,green paint and "Superbe" on the chaincase. I can't quote the frame geometry - don't know how to measure it - can anyone tell me? I remember seeing these in Raleigh catalogues long after they stopped making any other models in this style, don't know when they were discontinued, but I have also seen very similar Raleighs with cable brakes. The chrome plating has not held up well - is not as good as other bikes I have from the 60s.

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Good luck on the ebay auction. I hope that no one who reads this list becomes your competiton. As far as I'm concerned you have "first dibs." I'm still trying to find a DL-1 locally (Connecticut) to add to my collection of "sports".

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Yesterday, after I dropped my son off at his summer camp in Holmes County, Ohio (largest Amish/Mennonite community anywhere), I stopped at two Mennonite bike shops. The owners of both said that English 3-speeds were now rare in their realm, and that 3-speeds had been replaced by mountain bikes and hybrids. I saw many Amish/Mennonite folk riding such bikes everywhere I went -- more bike riders than buggy drivers. I suppose for the terrain the mountain bike is actually a good choice. There are many steep hills (one of the few hilly areas in Ohio) and unpaved roads, not to mention the farms themselves where a mountain bike would be good for getting across fields and forested areas. Anyway, it was a bust for Brit bikes, although I left business cards with the shop owners. Last Friday I stopped by a bike shop in Columbus -- gave the owner a card: "buy, sell, trade English Three-Speed Bicycles." He and a friend who was there with him laughed -- they thought I was joking. Ironically, at that momment, they were both struggling with a 50s Hercules (pre-Raleigh -- "Hercules" chainring). They were having a difficult time getting the rear wheel on with the anti-rotation washers in the proper places inside the dropouts. I offered my opinion that the Brit bikes were the best commuters ever made. The owner's friend, a purported friend of Grant Petersen, began to listen seriously. He rides a specially-equiped Rivendal as a commuter. I'm sure it cost him at least $1,500, maybe more. Yet with all it's fancy stuff -- the English 3-speed's better for the purpose. I said, "My English 3-speed cost me less than one of the tires on your bike. I can ride it in the city over potholes and it won't break. And I don't need more than three speeds for commuting in the city." I don't think he can really do that as well with his pricey, derailleur-equiped Rivendal. Am I right?

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Last week I reacquired a very nice lady's Raleigh Record -- traded two other bikes to a neighbor friend to get it back. I'm guessing early 70s -- it has the old-style Huret with toothless jockey wheels and red rings. It's very clean -- blue paint still glossy, about a dozen or so small scratches. Decals are great, including Berkely CA "Velo Sport" sticker (a bit of history in and of itself). No rust. I know the Record was the "bottom dweller" of the Raleigh road bike lineup, but it's still quite beautiful. It has upright bars and a wide, sprung Brooks matress saddle -- so really this one was an early hybrid of sorts. I have a question for those who have catalogs or memories of the 70s -- the front brake is a Weinman CENTERPULL, the rear a Weinmann SIDEPULL. The cable braze-ons lead me to believe the rear is original. But could the front be original too? -- did Raleigh combine the two on this particular lady's model?

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First, what is a 'phillips' brake? Was it designed by and for the Phillips bike. How can I recognize one when I see it? Second, what is an Endrick rim? I've seen two different rims, one adorned with a raised center ridge along the spoke line and another without a ridge. Any explanation, history for its development, and pros and cons of the designs would be appreciated.

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Dave...the answers to most of your English bike questions (and a great deal more) can be found at www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/index.html...have fun!

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Keith...it's a little harder to mount a centre-pull on a womans frame unless it's a mixte frame where the top tube is split in two and runs from the head tube to the rear dropouts. Then a long brake "hanger"? cable can straddle the seat tube and operate a centre-pull brake mounted on the split top tube at a reasonable angle perpendicular to the rear rim...I think. It could have just been easier to mount a side pull.

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Hi everyone -- I was just surfing around having fond memories of a single-speed 28" Monarck that I used to ride in Thailand when I found this page. I followed the link to the bike project page. Has anyone had experience with these bikes? They seem like quite a good deal. I fixed my Monarck with Chinese parts from similar bikes, so I know what they are like in general, but I don't know anything about these models.

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Where are people getting these Forever roadsters? Are they similar to the metropolitan bikes? Also, I remember my old rod-brake Monarck had chrome braces for the front fork -- I wonder if they are available here.

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All of these names and numbers are taken directly from the American edition of a mid-50's Raleigh catalog( printed in England). There's the LENTON SPORTS N0. 28 (gents) 28L (Ladies) SUPERBE SPORTS TOURIST N0. 24. & 24L SPORTS LIGHT ROADSTER N0. 22 (AW) & 22L SPORTS LIGHT COASTER No. 22 (TCW) &22L SPORTS TOURIST No. 23 & 23L (a Sports with a chaincase) THE RALEIGH RECORD ACE No. 24 Gent's only RALEIGH LENTON TOURIST No. 29 Gent's only RALEIGH DAWN TOURIST No. 12 & 12L (same as sports tourist, but with rod brakes) RALEIGH CLUBMAN No. 25 gent's only). Those aren't the only models listed, I left out the Robin Hood models and the Junior's models (24" and 20" wheel bicycles). I hope to get the catalog viewable online soon! Cheers!

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A few months ago when this discussion group was threatened I created an alternate discussion group in the Yahoo Clubs site. This has the capacity to store photos and this might make a good place to share pictures of your rare machines or restoration projects. If Randy won that auction on E-bay he might have some interesting things to show us as he rebuilds those bikes. The URL for this Yahoo site is http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/englishroadsterbicycles?as You have to go through a little process to join the club before you can post pictures, then you can go to an albums section and download a few. They only allow so many megs of space, so once in awhile I'll delete the oldest pictures. I think it would be fun to see some of these bikes everybody writes about. I think it would be best to keep the text discussions at the Menotomy site, since it is so well established. If you like this idea, sign up for the Yahoo club and post some pictures. I put up a picture of my African Roadster and trusty Dunelt. My wife and I are off to Eugene OR for a few days so I'm looking forward to seeing the bikes at Blue Heron Cycles. Happy Riding, Bill H

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Hi, I am trying to find out what model Raleigh I have. Here is what I know:- It has what looks like "Riviera" on the top tube both sides badly scratched though. It has a three speed SA dynohub at the back with a 69 - indicating 1969 I think Dropped bars and flat oval section pedals. Wheels look to be steel 26 X 1 1/4 I have searched on Raleigh Riviera and not found any references so far. Can anyone supply any more info I want to clean it up and restore so I can ride it through the winter as I thought the dynohub and SA 3 speed would be really handy as it gets dark and wet a lot here in Wales, UK. :-) Cheers Paul

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I ran across a virtually "NOS" DL-1 this afternoon at West Bikes in Vallejo, CA (http://www.westhubcaps.com/ for directions). It's a 22" gents' frame, 1978 vintage per the AW hub date, and looks like it has never been outside. It's immaculate, as far as I could see, given the fairly poor lighting in the place. The only thing was, the fenders looked a dark brown... They want $375 for it. They also have a goodly selection of sports models also--including at least one very nice late Raleigh Sports (looked like 21" gents' frame) in the late two-tone paint, again very nice shape, for $175. Older bikes are cheaper, and they have a number that are in the "fixer-upper" category. There was a ladies' Sports, date unknown but probably 1970's, with a Dyno front hub and headlamp (the later chrome "bullet" type), again for $175.

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Paul: I seem to own a similar Raleigh Riviera, - the top tube sticker on mine can still be clearly made out. In addition to the quite fanciful name, this one has the unusual (to me, at least) feature of a sort of proto-gripshift twister grip, that´s married to a Sturmey-Archer threespeed hub. In a second-hand bookshop, I also found a stunning reproduction of a Raleigh poster from the late sixties, with the Riviera, and a brunette in a sunflower-patterned minidress sprawled over it. In time, I´ll get a homepage up and running for our bicycle club, and the Riviera poster is sure to be included. Oh, and Keith; thanks ever som much for your reply. I have a quite nice picture of the club taken three years ago, with us posing in front of a viking longship. Well, must run, so that will be all from Norway for the present. TLS

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And another thing: there was some sort of english roadster/boozing/dress-up-in-silly-clothes club in New Orleans mentioned here earlier. Do any of you know anything about it? I should like to be able to contact them.

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I remember seeing an email address for those folks. I think it was under Menotomy's "CLUBS" discussion topic, or maybe under Menotomy's "STUPID BIKE TRICKS" topic.

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1978 Raleigh DL-1 for sale. Rod brakes, brand new 28-inch tires, three speed Sturmey-Archer hub works perfectly. Worn Brooks B-66 leather saddle. Original Raleigh handgrips. Nice original black paint, red striping, decals. Plating on rims only fair. This is an excellent rider. I'm offering it only because I have two other DL-1s. Can pick up in Lafayette, Ind. or pay shipping charges. Email with questions please or call (765) 429-6247 evenings.

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I'm looking for some pedals for my 1969 Robin Hood. The original ones look just like the rubber peddals on my girlfriend's Raleigh Sports except there is no Raleigh logo. Not looking for an exact match and they can just be some good used condition pedals. Thanks in advance! --Jim

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I put up some pictures of my DL-1 on the website (http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus). Since everyone in the world who is interested in DL-1's is here :-) I probably won't do any more webpage updates unless there is useful technical information I can add.~~I am looking now for an S5 hub for it.

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In late July,99 the bicycle was purchased for $50.00 from a friend. After minimal cleaning, it is showing great promise as a profitable investment. I am unsure of the year or even a value range, so any help, offers would be greatly appreciated. The info. available to my ignorant eyes are as follows, Turney/Archer 3-speed stamped with the # 70, and an Oakland, Ca license

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I enjoyed seeing the photos of your Raleigh "Tourist", Randy - especially the close-ups of the rod actuated brakes. I don't think that I have ever seen a bike with rod brakes down here in New Orleans. Occasionally, one can see a rusty, beat-up Raleigh "Sports" still being ridden, but even those are rare.

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Nice photos of your bike, Randy. It looks just like the 1974 model I recently bought. I think the cheesy mattress saddle must have been original equipment on the later DL-1s, because mine was similarly equipped. I took it off and replaced it with a B-66 Champion, which from the side looks a little like the Raleigh heron head trademark. I put a 24-tooth sprocket on the back as the area where I live is fairly hilly. I figure that gives me a spread from 40 to a little over 70 gear inches. I know from my cyclocomputer-equipped Pashly that I can do 18 mph or so in the 70 something gear if I spin it up a little, and the 40-inch low is good for all but the longest, steepest hills. All in all, I find the DL-1 to be a wonderful bike for riding and it ain't too bad to just sit and look at, either.

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Randy, I just took a look at your Tourist which is identical with my DL-1, however mine simply says Raleigh on the chain guard, and came with a leather saddle. Beautiful bikes! Does any one know what the model name, if any, was on my bike? I've seen several variations that all seem to be the same bike with only slightly different fittings. There is a fellow near me who has a beautiful Tourist that has the full chain case, otherwise it looks just like Randys'. Thanks!

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Based on the hub markings on the Sturmey-Archer, it was made in 1970. Seems to me like $50 was a pretty fair price, but if it's really clean and you find the right person, you might be make $25 with it.

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Dennis, the Tourists we sold at Mr. Bike (late 1970's) came with B-66 saddles. Both "NOS" Tourists I've seen in the past month also have B-66's. I'm fairly certain my matress saddle isn't original equipment (mostly because of the "Schwinn" nameplate on it...), and I think Tourists had leather saddles to the end. The gents' and ladies' pair just on eBay had saddles with enormous, safety-pin shaped underframes that stick out both in front and in back of the leather. Since the guy who bought them only lives 30 miles away, I'll try to get a couple of pictures before he delivers them to the ultimate buyers. When I get a 24T, it will go on my Tourist. I had a 22T Bendix (flat) and a 22T S-A (dished) so I used the S-A to preserve the chainline.~~ Mark, we used the names Tourist and DL-1 pretty interchangably at the shop. Unfortunately, I didn't keep any catalogs (silly me) so I don't have any printed references. But I do know that the lettering on my bike (the "speed lettering" "RALEIGH" and the stylized "R" on the fork blades and the Helvetica "Tourist" were graphics specifically designed for the US market. I don't know what the corresponding British design was. I'm in correspondence with a Raleigh graphics designer from that era (I've told him about this forum, but he was just leaving on vacation) and I'll ask him about that. He said the "corporate identity program" for the US market had just been implemented when he came on board in 1972.

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If this looks too long to read; skip it. Its just a post midnight ramble about our favorite bike. I finished cleaning up the green ladies Sports I wrote about earlier by disassembling the suspension of the mattress seat and removing the rust. The springs and rails had just a light coat of rust on them. The bike is very nice but the forks are sprung. I'll have to tackle that some day. I found myself at loose ends today so put the green one in the loft and and brought down a mans black one to look at. I've had it 2 years but haven't seen it for a while. It is better than I remember. All the decals except the rear fender one are perfect. The frame paint is good, the chrome so-so-worse than that on the rims. This one is a 73 and they must have started scrimping by then. Have you noticed that the fenders always look worse than the frame. Too little paint seems to be the reason. This number is all original. It has all the red "R's" on it. The cable housings are ribbed. The shifter cable has the protective sleeve. And all the cable clamps are there. I had not noticed before that it had a two piece stem and bar. That's good because the bars are rusty and the stem is not. I don't know what to do about the rims. I can remove the rust but the pits will remain. This one also pulls but It isn't obvious that anything is bent. It would be nice to have a frame machine. I have two more Sports to play with. A great but shabby green mans model. This one rides like a dream. The other one is a black ladies model and really ratty. I think I will leave it in the loft and bring down the DL-1. Now there's a bike.

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I want to saw a section of the neckshaft on my bike and I need to know about the strength of the frame and if cutting it will couse it to buckle or break.

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Neck shaft? On the frame? Or what?

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It's really a pleasure to have new people, like Randy, bring so much enthusiasm and experience to this group. On Friday, on the way home, I spotted those familiar North Road bars a mile away, and I ended up with another Dunelt. This one's a one-speed coaster (with front caliper) with a '68 date stamp. I cleaned it, adjusted everything, and it rides beautifully. It's lighter than my other sports bikes, in part because of the smaller hub, no back brake, no shifter or cable, etc. (maybe a pound) but also because I haven't weighed it down with racks, baskets, lights, and such. So it's a lively ride. But I wish I'd stumble across some roadsters here instead. Randy, my 1978 DL-1 has a B-66, so I think you're correct. Mark D. -- pricing and values on these bikes are, I believe, all over the place, though with interest growing, who knows? I acquired a newish 1970 AMF Hercules at a garage sale a few months ago for $20. But, it appears some shops on the West Coast are beginning to carry old sports bikes as regular items, selling them for $100 to $175, depending on model and features.

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I am looking for the set of wrenches that were supplied to buyers of Raleighs/Rudges around 1950. They came in a small leather casse that was attached to the back of the seat. Thanks

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I replace zinc spokes with stainless DT or Wheelsmith everytime. It is part of the overhaul every bike gets before I add it to my collection. I prefer the look of the stainless to the dull zinc. This is one reason I learned wheelbuilding!

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For Sale: Pair of used, old style Raleigh pedals with big hex-head endcaps and replaceable, 3.5-inch-long black rubber pedal blocks with Raleigh logo. Chrome-plated flanges keep the foot from slipping. Extra heavy, top quality. $20 postpaid.

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Kevin, I'd be glad to take those off your hands for you.

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I agree with you, Clarence, about building new wheels with stainless spokes. Once I find a new pair of rims, I'll definitely use SST spokes. I've always looked down a little at zinc-plated spokes. But I was surprised to see how nice that the weathered zinc spokes actually looked when I cleaned them up. To me, they do have a beauty (patina?) all their own.

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An option for removing rust from small parts is soaking in oxalic acid in water. Oxalic acid is available at hardware stores as "wood bleach" (look on the label). I use it for removing "rust" stains from clothing, but last week I was refurbishing a Dyno taillight (the old roadster style, small cylindrical steel body) and decided to try the oxalic acid. After disassembling all the parts, I soaked them all in a solution of about a tablespoon in a pint of water. Actually, I cheated by putting the beaker into an ultrasonic cleaner at work, but the soaking will work on its own. No mechanical abrading required at all! Then a good rinse in clean water and blow-drying (steel is at its most vulnerable to rusting right after it's been cleaned!) I'll smear some petroleum jelly (Vaseline) around the inside of the shell and on the connections when I reassemble it.~~The headlight (the newer "bullet" shape without the external focusing screw--I discovered that you can focus the bulb--when you pull out the holder, there is a separate "locknut" stamping that lets you set the distance the bulb screws in) had been roughly hand-painted black long ago. Paint remover took this off, exposing thin silver paint, with black under *that*. Finish will be black, to install on my DL-1/Tourist. I have some original Dyno wires with decent fittings, so I'll probably use them.

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The oxalic acid will actually dissolve the rust. I soaked the parts for about 15 minutes. None of the paint or zinc plating was affected.

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A friend of mine who collects antique beer cans also swears by oxalic acid. It takes the rust off old, rusty steel beer cans but doesn't ruin the paint. I don't know what concentration he uses.

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Hey guys, thanks for the tip on the oxalic acid! I'm gonna try it!

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My neighbors gave me this bike. They bought in england in 1957. Except for inactivity, it is in good condition. I want to clean and restore it...new tires etc., but i don't want to ruin its antique value..if any... Any comments would be appreciated. We also have a child's 20" Kent from the same time period and place. Does anyone know of its value or history?

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My wife is complaining that the Brooks B-72 on her '54 Raleigh Sports is a pain in the rear! I was thinking of replacing it with either a B-73 or B-90/3. Any recommendations? The B-73 looks to have good cushiness potential with a coil spring at each corner.

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Randy, I'm glad to see that someone else is a user of Oxalic acid. I have been using it for over 30 years on old car parts. I have a paragraph in the Tech Tips section of my web site "Fred's Wheels" on its use and have posted notes in these discussion groups in the past. I'm glad to learn of its availability in paint stores also. Fred

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Looking for the front reflector and tire pump for what I think is a DL-1. Any tips on restoring leather seat?

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I didn't mean to steal any of your thunder, Fred! :-) I did do a search for "oxalic" in the archives before I posted, but only in this area (I downloaded all the parts, tacked them together and reformatted to 72 characters maximum width as a text file--it makes them a lot easier to search). I didn't think of searching the other areas... Oxalic is safe enough to soak your clothes in also. I photoetch (mostly brass) using ferric chloride, which causes instant "rust stains" on everything it touches. That's where I learned about the oxalic. I'm glad to hear of your long-term experience with it (and Kevin's friend's)! It's reassuring to know that there are no hidden "catches".

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Is anyone making cloth rim tapes any more? Not the self-adesive Velox type, but the traditional cotton-twill-tape-with-little-metal-"buckle". I haven't been able to find any, so I'm planning to etch up a mess of the little "buckles" out of stainless steel when I get my new etching tank up and running. If someone has a source for premade tapes, I won't go through the trouble (I drew up the pattern from the one NOS tape I've been keeping for years now.) If I end up etching them, I'll make them available for anyone else who likes things traditional... :-)

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I have several NOS, English, chrome-plated pumps that fit the pegs on Raleigh Sports and Tourist frames. Brand new, complete with cloth-covered hose. Stamped "Made In England." They fit U.S. valve stems but they don't have the piece that presses the core down. For cosmetic use only ... and for clubbing dogs that nip at your ankles. $7 each plus post.

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I was recently given a 68 (based on the date of the AW hub) Schwinn Traveler 3-speed which had been sitting for several years. When I worked the gear selector, the plastic fulcrum plug broke apart. Searching for one at the local bike shops elicited responses from "A What?" to the far-away look while the mechanic remembered where he thought he had some. In two shops, a 20 minute search only revealed that they didn't have them, although I do appreciate the effort. My solution was to cut and smooth a spent 9mm Luger shell casing to shape. The hole for the primer easily accepts the cable and I now have a fulcrum plug that should never break.

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On Menotomy's "Discussion Area" page (the page that shows all of the discussion topics) they have a "search the archives" button. I tried it using 'oxalic' and found a discussion of oxalic acid it under the "rust" topic. FYI..!

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From what I've seen of the old woven rim tapes on my bikes the closest looking thing would be the flat oil lamp wicks that they sell at Wal-Mart. I'm sure somebody sells it in large spools. Also, check around at craft stores, they might have something similar. I like using the rubber tapes, but I reuse the metal buckle, it seems that the rubber always distorts around the valve hole, sometimes locking the valve stem in place. The rubber tapes also don't absorb water as badly, where it can be held close to the rim and cause rust. Cheers!

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Now I know what to do with my spent Luger shells!

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I have an old Miller generator lighting set that I would like to mount on my DL-1. I think I am missing an adapter/bracket/clip that would permit the headlight to slip over the standard Raleigh type angle headlight bracket. Was an adapter like this ever available? Anyone seen one lately?

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Maybe I'm a "retro-grouch", but I browse with Java and Javascript turned off (helps avoid both dangerous--Java bomb--and merely intensely annoying--popup advertising [can you say Geocities?] happenings). Since the Menotony online archive search uses Javascript, I don't use it... Thanks for pointing it out, though, techno. Other people may not know about it.

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Wes, the 1/2" wide twill tape is commonly available in both cotton and polyester. That's no problem. It's etching the buckles that will be some work. If noone else is interested, I'll just make 8 or 10 for myself, otherwise I'll do more. I've never had the "rusty rim inside" problem myself, but that is a good point. I've replaced tubes in tires that had pretty rusty buckles...

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My wife found this Dunelt 20" girls model at a garage sale and unfortunately I can't keep it (the dentist wants all my money). I need some help in determining the date. It has original Dunlop tires and the top tube "Made in England" decal looks just like the one on my Raleigh, so I was guessing post-Raleigh takeover and pre-Dunlop bike tire abandonment ('62- '65?). Any guesses? The bike's on eBay -- some pictures here. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/4975/dunelt.html

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Dave; Loose screws have fulcrum sleeves and clips as used originally on Raleigh 3 speeds. Check their website. Harris Cyclery also has them.

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The cloth rim tape is neat, although I agree that it probably held in moisture helping the rim to rust. The buckles are great because the rubber strip can get hung up in the valve stem. I have rolls of origonal cloth somewhere. This one shop that I swallowed had all kinds of crazy stuff like this. I never thought we would be discussing the cloth rim tape, but nothing wrong with that.

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No offense, but how much does she weigh? If the B-33 comes in a ladies model then I would suggest that one.Take a good look at the Brooks seat page. I am not sure if the B-90/3 is meant for a woman or not. This is a good question.

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Hey, As long as I do not have to stop and fool with a broken spoke alongside the trail.The patina of rustless spokes is neat also.I replace whole wheels (rims and spokes) before I take it for a fly.

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Hey All! I just had great sucess at making my own leather mudflap for my Forever today. If you don't have bolt on fender stays, you'll need to drill a hole to mount it. Laying out the pattern and cutting the flap out is probably the most difficult part of the job, and soaking the finished flap in foot oil (not proofide) is mesy. Randy, I'd probably be interested in about 6-8 of the little buckles. I like to use them with the rubber (non adheasive) rim tapes. It also allows one to just buy a one size fits all tape & just cut it to the right length Also, speaking of cloth bicycle parts, I'm sure you've all encountered the older outer brake cables that have the layer of cotton between the metal and plastic. Cheers!

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28" rim strips can be fabricated, free, from discarded 24 and 26 inch innertubes. Take scissors or tin snips and cut a continuous strip from the side of the tube opposite the valve stem. Cut a hole for your new valve stem. Presto! A free rim strip!

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I have a B-33 on my DL-1 and it is a great seat. I looked at the 90/3 and it was too massive for me. Rivendell can order any of those saddles for pretty good prices. Happy Bottoms!

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I am sorry, especially to the Terry folks but women do not need special seats. I doubt that men do either. We must look carefully at the marketing "spin" that is going on. I repeat, women do not need special seats. If your seat is adjusted properly, you will be fine. Butts is Butts, its the adjustment for the genitals that counts, and thats where the spanner comes in.

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I am sorry, especially to the Terry folks but women do not need special seats. I doubt that men do either. We must look carefully at the marketing "spin" that is going on. I repeat, women do not need special seats. If your seat is adjusted properly, you will be fine. Butts is Butts, its the adjustment for the genitals that counts, and thats where the spanner comes in.

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I was wondering what Claudia meant by a spanner. I was thinking of the type of spanner wrench that a watch maker would use to remove screwed on backs or a camera repair technician would use to remove retaining rings on lenses. I got my answer from Sheldon Brown's excellent glossery: Spanner = British term for "wrench."

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Visit any swimming pool. You will find that not all butts are the same, especially male and female butts. Brooks seats for men are long through the nose for an obvious reason.

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I believe a woman riding a mans saddle must feel alot like a man sitting on a seatless seat post! From experience with ladies riding with meself, most women do indeed need a ladies saddle.

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I am highly amused by the male responses and the term "men's saddles." What a hoot. And yes,I sometimes buy men's hiking boots and find them quite comfortable. Just in case you are wondering, I have been married for thrirty one years and my mother does not wear army boots (she doesn't have to because she knows her daughter might.) Lets get over the gender thing. It is stupid.

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Kevin said "Brooks seats for men are long through the nose for an obvious reason." Yeah!! Its so women have something to hang their purses on!

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I have a early "Humber Sports", it has a triangular shifter on the top tube, but the hub has been changed so I can't get a date off it. It has stainless spokes and 26" wheels. Frame number is not with me at the moment. Can anyone date and tell me if it should have drop bars and a Brooks saddle? the only photo I have is a roadster from 1939 which is otherwise identical. Anyone help please? Roger ROY Australia

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Let's change the subject slightly. What would be the best saddle for a 290 pound man with a big butt, a Brooks B-90/3, a B-73, a big Schwinn cruiser saddle or one of those new fangled double seats -- with one seat for each bun? This is a serious question. Be kind! :-)

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True story women have different "sit" bones to us guys and require a different saddle. I have read articles on this as I used to think it was dumb and similar to "ladies" bikes, but its not the pelvis is wider (I'm not going to get into the dtails). The article was in Cycling Plus Iss.87 Jan 99. I may be able to copy if needed. Roger Australia

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Go look at the Brooks page on the net, I think they may be able to help you out. The sprung one may not give you enough support. Quoting from "Cycling Plus" again the saddle needs to be wide enough to feel like your sitting on a curb so you may have to test ride one. Roger Australia

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Go to bed already!

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Hi Paul M, if you live in New Orleans you may be pleased to find a Brooks dealer right here in the Big Easy - Wallingford Bicycles Parts. Check out their website for reviews of saddles - www.wallbike.com - they may answer your questions. My favorite is the B-66; my wife likes the B-66S. Also, there is at least ONE rod brake bike in the Crescent City, my AVON (Indian copy of DL-1) from Steven at Bicycle Arts. Cheers.

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Has anyone on the list heard of an Apollo? It is a 26" 3-speed roadster with rod brakes and an old leather seat. The pedals say "hercules" but I am not sure if they are original. Thanks!

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Roger, How is the rod braked push bike situation in OZ? I understand your lot has a few native brands we've never heard of. Maybe the folks here would like to hear about some. Also you must be deep in the winter of your discontent about now, it's mid-winter there no?

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Not too many builders used rod brakes down here, if it had brakes they were cable or coaster type. I am no expert on rod braked bikes though! There have been many builders in Australia, perhaps the oldest firm was Bennett and Wood Pty. ltd with their Speedwell from about 1890 till 1970's. Malvern Star was another big firm from Victoria but I know more about Speedwell than anything else. A Speedwell was used by Arie Van Vliet to win the World Championship somewhere between 1938 and 1940, if anyone has details of this I would be interested. Still looking for Humber info too! Roger

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See Aug. 5 posting on this page for details. Thanks. Good bike.

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Thanks for the information about saddles. Clyde, I do live in the Crescent City and was delighted to learn that you do, too. I hope that I’ll see you riding your Indian roadster some day. I’d like to see it. Have you converted it to a 3 or more speed or left it in its original, single-speed state? I live in the Carrollton area, but I drive all around the city, Metaire and the West Bank. Thanks for the info about Wallingford Bicycles Parts and its Brooks saddles. I had never heard of the company. I took a look at its Web site. Sure is hot and humid here now, isn’t it? (I've included my e-mail address above.)

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Sigh. A while back, I had two good front forks for a Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, and I foolishly sold them. Now I have a complete Tourist that really could use a fork with less interesting bends in it. Anybody got one that'll fit a 24-in men's DL-1?

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It's been 17 years since I was this close to having a running DL-1. This one, sn 2881204, does not fit the serial number scheme as far as I can tell. The hub date appears to be July '71 on the AW, while the Dynohub front is marked 69. Go figure. Question - does it matter which side the dynamo is on when fitting a Dynohub front wheel? Thanks!

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I have a Rear, Sturney Archer Dyno Hub(s) and I am looking for a fair price to sell them. They have a bit of rust (I've been reading your messages and I'm going to try that wood bleach trick) varying upon hub. I thought I saw '59' and judging by the technology and weight (!) I would think that they are from 1959. I also have the 3 spd handle shifter and the Sport Shifters from the same manufacturer. Any help would be appreciated.

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Well, after posting to this list last week and beginning my search for an old rod-brake model I have become the owner of several English three speeds! The other week I bought a Monark ladies' model that is a badge-engineered Raleigh. It works great but is missing the front fender. For $5, I couldn't resist. The very next day, I talked to a person with an Apollo rod-brake 3 speed that I proceeded to buy as well. I thought I was all set, until today, when I was at a garage sale and bought what is left of an old Phillips. It has no fenders, chain guard or brakes (rear coaster). The frame also appears to have been mauled in the area of the rear chain stay-bottom bracket. I hope that someone can repair the frame, because I think that it would make a great fixed-gear project bike. I just bought an NOS 40-hole low-flange flip-flop hub that I want to lace into the original rear wheel (if the rim is not too bent). If the rim is not saveable, I guess I will convert the bike to 27 inch or 700c wheels. I know it sounds like blasphemy, but there are just too many missing parts to make this one whole again. Does anyone have any old axle wing-nuts? Or a 40-hole 27 inch rim?

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Check this out!

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The Classic Transfers catalog arrived this week, and they have a fair number of Raleigh repro decals available. I'll use L for the "pounds" symbol.~~#0622A, Heron Head rear mudguard decal, silver/red/black,1-3/4",L2.50~~#0622B,script "Made in England",gold/black,4-1/4",L2.00~~ (no number),seat tube decal vertical block "RALEIGH" with "The ALL-STEEL Bicycle" below, gold/black,5-1/2",L3.00~~#6400,Heron Head crest,red/gold/black (no outline around "NOTTINGHAM ENGLAND"),1-7/8",L2.50~~#6835 same as previous,2-3/8",L3.00~~#6697,gold script "Raleigh",2-7/8",L2.00~~ #6401, script "Raleigh",(color not called out), 5", L2.50~~#6404, "speed lettering" RALEIGH, red/black,3-3/4",L2.50~~#6790, "speed lettering" RALEIGH,white/black,3-3/4",L2.50~~#6564, script "Made in England" (different style than earlier one),gold/black,3-7/8",L2.00.~~They also have Triumph, Royal Enfield, BSA, Humber, Rudge Whitworth, Sunbeam and other decals (not complete sets, but selected decals, it seems) and have a large number of original decals from which to make new artwork. They will make decals in batches of 50 and up. They were kind enough to send me their catalog/price list and trust me to send them the L2.00 with my first order (I'll send IRC's instead, since I will probably order for a while). Their website address is farther up in this batch of messages.

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Calvin, first thing is to surf over to http://www.toehead.demon.co.uk/ag.htm and read about dismantling and reassembling your hubs. DON'T EVER separate the magnet from the armature, or it will lose most of its magnetism. As to value, I don't know, but I'd offer $50 for one of them (which might be low--I've only owned one and it was in a whole bike that I bought for $150 and subsequently sold for the same amount a couple of years ago) if it's a 40-hole.

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Russ, what shape is your fork in? I just re-aligned the fork on my DL-1/Tourist to hands-off-ridable condition, but it was not *too* badly off (no kinks or wrinkled blades). The rake looks kind of funny, but it was that way when I got it and I wanted to do the minimum re-bending necessary. I'd be happy to try helping you out (disclaimer: although I built 3 recumbents and a homemade splice-tandem about 15 years ago, I'm *no* professional frame-builder).

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I dismantled the Dynohub last night and was amazed at its condition. I had never before seen that much rust inside anything English! The inside of the hub shell cleaned up okay, and the axle bearings were undamaged, but the actual guts of the dynamo were red and crusty. I used some Quik-Glo and then smeared Phil grease over areas, rotated them and wiped off the crud. Am I correct in thinking that if I lube it frequently and clean the crud off as best I can, I can get it running correctly? For that matter, is there a solvent I can dunk the unit into that won't harm the windings? Perhaps I need another set of Dynohub internals? An aside - the guy I got the bike from, who shall remain nameless, did all sorts of work to the exterior of the bike, but NOTHING to the internal mechanicals. The gearhub hadn't even been adjusted, much less oiled. Arrrgh. Currently this bike is all show and no go, which is NOT what I think of when I think of Raleigh Tourists. Is this sort of thing considered acceptable in ballooner restorations? I shouldn't complain too much, though - at least I have a Raleigh that can be made right sooner or later, which is better than it's been for many years.

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I have just been humbled once again by Sturmey-Archer products. I've always known that given enough oil, any AW gearhub will come back to life. I've just finished wiring up and testing the lights on my DL-1. This has to be the nastiest Dynohub in Christendom - there must have been 1/8 thick rust caked on every surface in that hub. The bike had its original taillamp, and I had a Sturmey front light ... and it works. I just am NOT believing this. That hub's interior was positively the worst looking thing I'd ever seen on a British bike, but it works. It still sounds gritty in there, but it's the dynamo portion - the spindle bearings are in excellent shape. I think I'll repack it every two days with fresh grease salted with Quick-Glo and see what I can do for it.

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In less than 24 hours I've trued a front wheel, repacked a Dynohub, lubed and adjusted the gearhub, fitted anti-rotation washers, replaced the cable-housing stop, replaced the bolt and nut that hold said unit in place, re-adjusted the brakes a zillion times, gotten on a first-name basis with the brakepads as I've removed and replaced them more times than I wish to think about ... but life is good. This bike is a reminder that with a DL-1, if you can't fix it, you're not using a big enough hammer.

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Russ; How lucky can you get to have a project like resurrecting your hub and find that it really works. I can't think of anything (well almost) more fun than working on a Raleigh. Fred

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From the dynohubs that I've taken apart, it seems that that darn magnet attracts anything that will stick to it. I took one apart that was perfect on the outside- no rust, excellent chrome, but when I took it apart to check out the grease on the bearings the whole magnet was covered in powdery rust, but it wasn't rust from the magnet, because you could take a rag and just wipe it off and see shiny metal underneath. My question is how does that iron oxide "dust" get in there, or where does it come from? It's not road dust. Anyway, cheers!

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Okay, here's the deal you can'trefuse! I've got a working 36 hole GH6 dynohub that I will trade for a 32 hole GH6. T

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Okay, here's the deal you can'trefuse! I've got a working 36 hole GH6 dynohub that I will trade for a 32 hole GH6. The hub is a '57 and has the clip oiler.

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I've added a scan of the rod brake adjustment instructions from a 1970's-era Raleigh owners' manual, to my DL-1 page at http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus. On my own bike, when I bought it the upper bellcrank pivot bolt, nut, and both saddle washers had been lost, and one of the lower bellcrank's saddle washers. The lower one had been replaced by an aluminum saddle washer from a caliper brake mounting, and the upper hardware had been replaced by a long 10-32 screw, nut, and two pieces of hobbyshop brass tubing for the bearing surfaces. Although a pretty decent kludge, the tubing wasn't large enough in diameter, so the rear brake had a lot of slop. I measured the remaining pivot bolt and saddle washer, and made three saddle washers and two bearing sleeves from stainless steel (which will have to do until I have time to machine a proper pivot bolt and nut). The rear brake is very solid now, with good feel to the actuation. One thing I'm still getting used to, is the limited turn of the handlebars before binding/bending the brake linkage at the head tube. This is only a factor while I'm maneuvering the bike into and out of my garage...

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I guess this list does not appreciate HTML, so my link did not show up. Here it is again for anyone interested: http://www.aimobicycles.com/ I emailed the company and was told that they have no US business because of product liability clauses. It seems a shame, because they are neat looking bikes and they carry a lot of parts that would be useful for restoring old English roadsters.

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Here are some more sites to drool over bikes we can't get! http://epages.webindia.com/bycategory/Bicycles http://lovson.com/bicycles.html http://www.surindera.com/ http://www.herocycles.com/ Everyone else has probably already seen these sites but I enjoyed seeing all of these "old" bikes still being made. It just goes to show how good the original designs were for their purpose ie dependable transportation.

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Thanks for sharing those with us, Robert. It is a pity that the fear of product liability law suits is keeping those out of the U.S.A

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Still have a few of the NOS English chrome-plated air pumps, which fit Raleigh Tourist and Sports frame pegs. See Aug. 10 posting on this site for details. Thank you!

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Hi folks, just got back from Amsterdam. We ain't got nothin' on those guys. Everyone rides a bike and there are over 4 million (count 'em) bikes in Amsterdam alone. Very bike friendly city with cars, bikes, trams and perdestrians all competing for the same real estate. Lots of fun. Took a bike tour through and around the town. A must see for any bike nut.

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Tim, what types of bikes are the Dutch using these days? Do they still have a lot of 3-speed roadsters? Do you see a lot of mountain bikes now? When I was in Switzerland in March, I still saw a lot of bikes with internal 3-speed hubs, but I also saw a lot of mountain bikes or cross bikes. Most of them had fenders and lights, and package racks, however.

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There are a dozen or so Dutch Canadian couples who spend winters in Florida in the same RV resort I do and most of them have Dutch bikes. I'm racking my brain trying to think of a brand name I have seen. Anyone who likes Raleigh Sports and Roadsters would fairly drool over the Dutch bikes. They exude quality of design and manufacture. I found one for sale in a shop but the price was more than I wanted to pay so I will keep looking. As for my neighbors, they don't even think of any other bike but one made in Holland and won't sell either.

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Does anyone remember a shop in San Francisco called "Planetary Gear"? Several years back, he was importing roadsters from Holland, and as I remember was pretty knowledgable on epicyclic bikes in general. Directory assistance doesn't have a listing now, and I can't find his business card so I can't remember the proprietor's name.

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I'm going to Amsterdam over the weekend of 11th September. I'll take a camera, photograph some bikes, note all the makers names I see and report back. I have a friend who can scan colour slides - I'm not sure how to show them to you - suggestions please. I know of one second-hand bike shop in Amsterdam - I'll check that out too. I'm going to Amsterdam for the International Broadcasting Convention - anyone else going there? talking bikes would make a welcome change from talking Television. regards, Pete.

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Now that I am well on my way to having a fleet of english 3-speeds I want to find out where there are some swap meets around here. Are there any other people in the SF bay are that read this list? I tried posting to the swap meet forum but got no responses. I heard of one meet in Sacramento this weekend, but I would hope that there was something a little closer to Berkeley in the next few months. Robert

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Pete, if you get some good pictures of those Dutch bikes you can post them on http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/englishroadsterbicycles. This is a site that billhoads set up when we thought Menontomy might go down for a while. If you do post them, just drop a note to this group to take a peek over there. Bet you can rent a bike for a "tour" somewhere in Amsterdam. Last time I was in Amsterdam was 1966 and I was more interested in the "local color" than I was in bikes. Life changes.

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Paul, In response to your question re: brand names, most bikes were Gazelles. Most were 1 speed with full chain cases, black and VERY WELL used. No spandex people, no water bottles dangling here and there, no helmets, no colorful jerseys or little rearview mirrors jutting from you glasses. Just everyday people using the bikes for work and to get around. Bikes are everywhere including many in the canals that they dig up every year. Very few Raleighs or any English machines for that matter. A few rod brakes. As you come out of the main train station in Amsterdam (Centraal Station) there must be over 10,000 bikes in racks and chained to the fences. Quite a site!

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I know living in England gives me an unfair advantage when it comes to finding old British vehicles, but has anyone any information on "Carlton Cycles" of Worksop, England? Any information would be greatfully recieved.

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Thanks for replying about the types of bikes the Dutch are using in Holland. I just looked at the Gazelle web site http://www.gazelle.nl/ It looks as if they are sill making and selling the type of bike you described in their Comfort category of bikes.

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I recently acquired a 3 speed men's bicycle with the name "Denalt" on the frame and forged as part of the crank gear. It seems to be around 30??? years old and in original shape. It has pulleys on the frame for the cables to ride along, and a large chrome headlight/taillight with generator. It appears to be English in origin. Can anyone tell me anything about this make or model? So far I can find nothing on this. Also, can I restore it without losing it's value? Please help!! Lee

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I have found some info on the web pertaining to my bicycle, and can now tell that it is a 1954, according to the date stamped on the 3speed Sturmey Archer hub. Maybe this will be of help in deciding value/and whether I should disassemble and restore, etc. Thanks again for the help in advance!

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I have been reading this page for a year or so and would like to say "thanks" for all that I've learned about my 74' Tourist/Dl-1. I discovered it at a local garage sale in Jersey last spring, purchased it for $17.00 and with just a little air in the tires, was off and enjoying. It had sat in a garage for most of it's life and was "cherry". It has rod brakes, saddle bag, etc, but no lights (yet) I'm still trying to figure what the crome front bracket is for?? At some point I will have to change the rear tube, and have been reading Sheldon Browns page for info. (Thanks Sheldon) It's really through this page that I've come to appreciate what I have, and hope to meet some other like riders in (rather dry) central New Jersey!

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That little front bracket on your handlebar stem, with the Raleigh heron, isn't just decorative; it's what you slip your headlight onto.

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Hi all - my Apollo rod-brake bike has the worst example of an old brooks (66 I think) saddle that I have ever seen. It has no finish to it whatsoever and it is completely limp. Is there any way to revive it, or should I just get a new one and start over? Can I get a new leather top and reuse the frame? Thanks for the advice!

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Hi again everybody! Lately I have been hearing a lot about problems getting rod brake parts, pads, among ot;her things. Anyway, a few days ago I was talking to this old bike mechanic in Vancouver. He told me he can make the brake pads, has done it before many times. It may be worthwhile to check it out. Only trouble is , the shop doesn't have a computer, so you'll have to use slug mail. Name of the place is: Lorne Atkinsons Ace Cycle Shop 3155 West Broadway Vancouver BC Canada V6K 2H2 phone # 1-604 738-9818. The guy you want is Ace, who started the place sometime in the stone age and has been monkeywrenching bikes all his life, most of them Raleighs. Well, here it is for what it's worth. Hope this helps. Ernie Bikes on Boundary

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My wife said "Don't get Huffy with me!". I replied "I beg your pardon dear but I ride Raleighs!".

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Here is another interesting site:http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/hgkuner/

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I was fortunate enough to recently acquire a copy of the Raleigh publication "Bicycle Wheel-Building Instructions". It is the book that Mark Hunt mentioned in his newsletter "Epicycling" back in the mid-1980's, and I have wanted a copy since then. I've transcribed the book, and placed it at the "secret" (i.e. currently unlinked) URL of http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus/ad4935/ad4935.html Take a look at the front cover! Sturmey-Archer hubs all around! After I do another round of proofreading (I've tried to copy it verbatim--grammar, capitalization and all) I'll link it from my main page. I hope it's a help to fellow epiphiles! I'll add the accompanying spoke chart as soon as I can get it in a compact, but readable, form.

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I completed the proofreading of the manual (one major error, one minor error and several punctuation errors) and it is now online, together with the accompanying spoke chart, at my website at http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus. I enlarged the spoke chart to print out on an 8.5 x 11 sheet (A4 will work also) to make it a little more readable than the original size. Save it to disk and print it, because it is much too large to view on-screen. The first thing I learned from the chart is that I spoked my Dyno front wheel wrong--cross 3 on the large flange instead of the recommended cross 2. I used good straight- gauge stainless spokes, so if I can find someone with a Wheelsmith machine I can shorten them (the wheel is, as of yet, unridden).

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I'm about done with the Shanghai Forever bikes, so if you were on the fence about getting one, now is the time to step up to the plate. I've got 3 green 28" single speeds left and a handful of men's and women's 26" 3 speed derailleur models. They will all be gone by today or the latest tomorrow. I do still have some spares for both models as well as a few frames that I've striped parts from if any one is interested.

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There's another DL-1 on eBay currently - Item #149831291. It's a (apparently 1961) gents', seems to be the 24" frame, and has a front Dynohub and lights. Bidding up to $227.50 as of Monday morning.

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I've taken the wheel-building instructions and spoke chart back down, realizing that I should ask Raleigh about permission to put the *whole thing* up on the net... Hopefully, all will be well and I'll put it up again with a clear conscience soon!

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I saw in an old archive that someone wanted to know where the Triumphs fit in the hierarchy. I'd like to know too. I bought mine as a little brother to my '77 750. The AW is from May '65. I wish it was as easy getting parts for these bikes as for the motorcycles, you can get everything for them. Triumphs seem to be everywhere around the northeast, I got a '70 women's model for five bucks...thinking about saving the hub for a Metropolitan one-speed? Did these bikes ever NOT have a white lower panel on the rear fender? My men's model is all black with pretty nice "coachlining" (Limey for pinstripes). Had to take a Columbia chainguard for it. Do these ever come up?

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I only had one response as to the price of the SA rear dyno hub. Someone mentioned that it would range between $50 - $150. Since they also mentioned that for it to be worth the $150, it had to be forty hole, to which it isn't. I have a friend who owns a bike store and wants to retire, and is willing to sell it for $50 USD plus shipping. As to shipping charges, the thing weighs almost 2kg(!) and to ship it to California from Guelph Ont. (near Toronto) would cost $10 by land and $15 by air. There are a couple left and are unused with a bit of rust patches hear and there.

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I am looking for 2 or 3 SA cables for a 3 spd hub with disk brakes. I have other SA products so trading isn't an issue. Calvin

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I beg your pardon, dear, but I ride a Raleigh-built Huffy Sportsman". It's a 1962 teal Sportsman that clearly built by Raleigh. Actually a pretty bike, but kinda odd

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Does anyone out there know anything about the Raleigh Mountie? I got an incomplete one the other day. Little, red 20 inch lightweight with cowboy-style decals. It seems strange for an English bike, but I guess the kids in Surrey dug Roy Rogers, too.

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while cycling last on my dl-1 I was thinking about the 60's Sprite I bought for a whopping $1.71. It is complete with an Alivit deraillur and top tube shifter. the bike has drop bars and quick release levers though. I thought sprites were sport bikes and was wondering if those bars and levers were added later. Any guesses? Thanks Mark P.

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I've seen a couple of Raleigh Mounties here in Canada... I presume they were mean't to be sold here. Another Canada-specific Raleigh was the Laurentian of which I've only seen one

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Kevin - Here is the description on the Raleigh Mountie (DL-80) as provided in the 1962 Raleigh catalog: "Aircraft lightness and aircraft strength are combined to give youngsters easy, safe, strainfree riding in their early years. Mounties are fitted with sure-stopping foot brakes, Dunlop Junior deep tread tires with Airseal tubes, 20"x1 3/8". Complete with Toolbag, tools,pump,lampbracket. Beautifully fimished in exclusive Matador Red or Venetian Blue with gold striping and white accents". Raleigh really tried to cater to the perceived needs of the yanks during this time period. I like this excerpt from the Supurbe description,"..include built-in Dynohub generator lighting - ideal for emergengency lighting in your fall-out shelter." (!!!)

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Mark - The Raleigh Sprite was a pretty high specificatio bike in the early 60's. It was in the middle of the Raleigh Record Ace range, between the "Blue Streak" (with benelux gears) and the Gran Sport (with Campagnolo gears). It was listed as coming with Maes pattern bend 15/16" steel, taped and plugged handlbars, and G.B.brakes with hooded levers. It looks like a neat bike! Hope this helps.

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Thanks, guys, for the information on the mysterious Raleigh Mountie. It's a cute little bike. Too bad that the pair of wheels I have from a 20-inch Schwinn lightweight won't fit on it. The axles are a tad too big!

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wondering if anyone knows where I can buy an english roadster? appreciate ant leads. Thanks.

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Greg, See Aug. 5 posting for Raleigh rod-brake 28-incher. Kevin.

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I'm looking for a 40-hole Sturmey-Archer S5 hub (any version). I'll buy outright, or have a nice 40-hole alloy-shell AW to trade. Thanks!

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I was needing some information on a English roadster made by Cycle Works of Tyseley Birmingham, England. Does anyone know anything about this bicycle company????

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Randy, some of the five speeds are better then the others. I would go with a newer model. I have ridden the S- 5 and the Five Star and I had reliability problems. I would order something current from the company rather than get a N.O.S. old hub. Also, the new hubs have longer axels.

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Of course, I'll not turn down a 28- or 36-hole hub, and just swap internals. But I'll be lacing a front Dyno also, and lacing two wheels is not much more work than lacing one, and it would be nice to have the S5 shell showing, all else being equal...

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What type of reliability problems did you experience, Clarence? I've read about the earlier pull-chain S5's (S5-1?) sometimes having problems with the sun slipping. Or was it something else? I haven't heard about any problems with the original (bellcrank) version--but so far, I have no first-hand experience (and you do) :-)

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Oh well, we live and learn. the sprite i picked up is not as grand as i had thought. It is newer than i'd thought and has lots of garden variety parts like anchor type brakes. No serial number has been found yet and its not a road bike, it has full fenders, a green rack, low end saddle plain fork ends and does not have any stickers to indicate frame material. Lucky I only paid $1.71, thank anyway Paul R. Mark P.

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Does anyone know what year that American-spec bikes began to have pedal reflectors, frame and wheel mounted reflectors and front reflectors? Also did British makers ever put their serial numbers on the rear dropouts of bb shells?

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I am trying to date a bicycle. It has a stamp of guaranteed english paper label on lower bottom of bike. Foremost is the name. It is a man's bike. black/white with working lights. Has nice fenders with chrome tips. Bycycle has gears in the handle bar grip. Any information will be appreciated. Thank you.

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Esther, look at the rear wheel hub. Assuming that is a Sturmey-Archer hub (S-A used a twist-grip for some of thier 3-speed hubs), it will have a date code like "68 5" (year and month) below the manufacturer's name area. Again, assuming that the wheel is the original one, this will date the bike pretty closely.

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I was down at Karim cycles in Berkeley the other day and saw that they had a few Sprites. Theirs were all the same color of army green and had Brooks saddles, alloy or steel north road handlebars, 3 or 5-speed flywheels with a steel derailleur and alloy brakes. They all had fenders and chain guards, and frame stickers reading "2020 steel" on the seat tubes. Sound like your bike? They had one really nice one with 27" alloy rims for $189. and two others with steel rims for less. Neat looking bikes at any rate. Is yours 3 or 5 speed?

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What's teh best way to ship a bike from canada to the US?

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What's teh best way to ship a bike from canada to the US?

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What's teh best way to ship a bike from canada to the US?

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Mine is army green, 26" steel wheel, 5 speed deraillur and approx. a '69 model. According to what I've read here these are not as desireable as internal geared bikes. $189 is high unless maybe its internal geared five speed and a Superbe model with a 40 spoke rear wheel.

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I picked up an interesting bike yesterday. Completely disassembled in a box by a bike store mechanic. It's a Raleigh ladies frame, 21", 1952 AW hub, GH6 Dynohub, 26" wheels and rod brakes. Appears to be all there. The mechanic rebuilt the hubs, they look great, and then lost interest in finishing. Some rust on the rims, lots of scratches on fenders and frame, but it should clean up pretty well. All I've got to do now is figure out how to put it back together and rebuild the wheels. Anybody have any tips or suggestions for me?

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Well, I've now sold nearly all the Asian bikes to dsitributors. I have a few left. However, I also have for FREE, some roadster frames that I've taken parts off of. I would be happy to give them to anyone interested if they pay for shipping, which actually won't be that much since the frames themselves could fit in a smaller box than the complete bikes and don't weigh all that much.(Amazing how much those 28" steel wheels weight!) I still have parts to sell. Lots of 26" x 1.5" white wall tires. ALSO, I can get full "oil bath" chaincases, but want to have firm orders for them as they are expensive(it's the shipping). $40 each. Let me know.(I can probably even get assorted colors -green, black, blue) Cheers, Stephen

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Also, I printed up many assembly instructions for these bikes and have extras. They are well illustrated details on how to assemble and adjust rod brakes, take off the rear wheel by removing the rear chain cover and might be a good thing for your local bike shop to have since most mechanics I've encountered only know how to adjust cable breaks and one wanted to break the chain to remove the rear wheel. Anyway, name, address, and either a SASE (w/52cents postage)or $1 and I'll send you one.

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Needed. One brake shoe for an early seventies Raliegh Record road bike. The brake shoes are kind of a tan/pink color. Any help greatly appreciated, since this is all that is needed to complete. Thanks.

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Stephen, does this mean the end of Bike Project? I hope that it has been a reasonably profitable venture for you. Any chance of your importing more, perhaps with a built-in 3 or more speed internal hub? I wish you well in your future endeavors, whatever they may be.

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Just doing a quick test, because I find it unusual that no one posted anything in the last two days.

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No news is good news.

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I would be very interested in a 28" wheel roadster with a 20" gents frame. It's coming up the time of year when I have bike money as in bonus time.

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Steve, Thanks for offering us with such unique bicycles. I ride my Forever often because it's more comfortable than any other bike I have save my DL-1, and I'm not as worried about pampering it (I save the DL-1 for special occassions). The Forever is unlike anything else anyone around here rides, and it never fails to turn heads. I wish I could afford one of his Pedersens or Umberto Deis.

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I have a 1972 ladies Raleigh LTD-3. A local bike dealer said it may be a collectible or value for its parts (it has Schwinn air cushioned grips). I'd love more information and/or information on selling it. Thanks.

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I have had for at least 25 years a chrome finished Hercules three speed. I got it as a teenager and I promptly bought parts to restore as much as my budget then would allow. It has dunlop chrome rims, the front being a 3 cross 36 hole rim and the rear being a 4 cross 40 hole rim connected to a Brampton 3 speed hub. Cloth rim strips, regular 26X 1 3/8 tires. The only thing not original to this bike currently are the fenders (english plastic fenders now on bike) and I am lacking a chain guard. I am wondering if any of you would happen to know what the proper chain guard would look like and secondly where I might even be able to snare one of these?

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I would be grateful to hear from anyone on the list who has an alloy-shell AW that he or she would be willing to sell. Also, I am in search of a BH front hub in ride-able condition; a pair of Weinmann 730 calipers (older ones without the black plastic bits), or long-reach GBs; and an engraved GB handlebar, maes bend, not deep-drop. Finally, if by chance anyone has an unmatched 1950s Raleigh fluted left-side crank arm, I would like to buy it for my right-side crank arm and chainwheel. Thanks for considering! - Chris Barbour, Boston, Mass. cbarbo01@tufts.edu Chris Barbour Boston, Mass. cbarbo01@tufts.edu

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Gary, you might check with Paramount Bicycle Repair in Somerville, Mass. There are a few hockey-stick chain guards in stock, for various Nottingham brands. (617) 666-6072

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Lisa, I recently sold a 1972 Raleigh LTD-3 in good condition for $40 + 2 echinacea plants. I doubt your schwinn grips are worth much though.

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Lisa, I once had a ladies Raleigh LTD-3 that was really a beautiful bike. It was just like a "Sports" except that it had Dunlop rims, which are a little lighter. I sold it to a good lady friend for $35, though it was undoubtedly worth more. I rode a Mand LTD-3 once and found it to be very acceptable indeed. It may be collectable, but it would probably have to be in very, very good condition to be worth ant REAL money. You should keep it and RIDE it!

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That's Man's, or Gent's of course!

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Has anybody had as much trouble as I have opening the "add message" page; couldn't open it at all on 8/30, although I see some messages were posted that day.

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Anybody ever run across a bike (very similair to a DL-1) called The Norman made in Ashford, Eng. I'm trying to date it. It has a Sturmey Archer SW (no date stamp), "stick shift" on top tube, rod brakes, 28" wheels. When did Sturmey Archer start date stamping their hubs? I know the SW was introduced in 1932, and I have a 52' SW that is stamped. Anybody have a SW prior to 52' that is date stamped?

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Oopps......not SW, I meant AW in the above.

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I learned the unfortunate news today that Jason was just laid off from his job, and has no Internet access for the time being. Jason asked me to post, that anyone who needs to contact him can reach him by phone at (401)722-7002 at home in Rhode Island.

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I've been advised by my doctor that due to balance problems caused by a series of strokes that riding a two wheeler is no longer a good idea. Since I've no intention of giving up riding, I am looking for a tricycle conversion kit for a 1962 Phillips (axle, hubs, etc.), or an older (Schwinn,etc.) three wheeler. I realise that this discussion group is for much more ambulatory cyclists than myself, but any help would be appreciated. P.S. : I wasn't able to find what I am looking for on Ebay. etc.) please drop me a line.

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One thing I meant to mention about the adult trike is that it should be affordable.

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It sounds like an intersting project. I once saw a trike rear end in a shop that does al lot of lowrider, cruiser and custom stuff. It was all chrome and they even had a 28" wheel pedicab called an "Avon" from India. Let us know how it goes.

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Ok folks, I've collected everything but the spokes for a 3-speed conversion of a DL-1-type Asian Clone. Can anyone advise on the proper spoke length and suggested cross pattern for 28" wheel and AW hub? Also, I've got the standard S-A anti-rotation washers, but will they be too small for the wider slot of a rear-loading DL-1 type dropout? Thanks to Steven for supplying the spare rim.

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The Raleigh spoke chart calls out 12" spokes cross 4 for a 28x1-1/2" Westwood rim on AW hub. By the way, I haven't heard back from Raleigh yet on permission to put up the webpage with their wheel-building instruction booklet and the spoke chart. By the way, for a Dynohub (front) with 28x1-1/2" Westwood rim, it's 12-1/16" X3 on the small flange and 11-11/16" X3 on the large flange.

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I am looking to buy a replacement fork for a 1951 Humber Cobb Tourist. This is a 28 inch wheel roadster. (black) I will pay you well for a good usable fork.

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If the washers are the cast type, with "plateaus" that run out to the edge of the washer, they should work OK in a wider slot. The older stamped sheet metal ones would probably not work very well.

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I used the power of the web to get an initial dating of my old Hercules. Maybe one you experts out there would know the year approxiamently of manufacture along with a model name. So far I have been told around 1959 and that it is uncommon to have a chrome framed hercules. Does anyone know what the right chainguard would look like here? http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/2145/bike.html

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Today I had the pleasure of meeting Clyde and his family and seeing his Indian roadster. It was a handsome looking bike. I was especially interested to see the rod actuated brakes. Roadsters with 28" wheels must have been designed for very tall and long legged people. Unfortunately, I would not be able to ride one comfortably.

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Roadster-type bikes are ridden in many third-world countries where the population averages rather shorter than that in better fed countries. People commonly ride bikes that they cannot straddle while stopped. A former partner of mine lived in Columbia in the '60s and tells of seeing Columbian street urchins whizzing around on 24" frame roadsters by sticking a leg _through_ the main triangle.

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That's interesting, Sheldon. I can't quite picture how those kids managed to pedal like that, but I assume they were standing up. I guess that where there is a will, there is a way. :-) BTW, your English bike pages on the Web are great!

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Anyone have info on a German made 3-speed named Tornado approx. 40 years old and is marked Roder seit # 1896, Sturmey Archer # 498820649009. Any help or other web site info would be appreciated.

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I have an old Brooks B-66 saddle that needs new leather. Does anyone have any idea where I can get a replacement? The hardware is in very good shape, and I'd like to re-use it. I had the thought of removing the leather from an older B-72, and using that, but I would rather not canabalize a good saddle if i can avoid it. Any help would be appreciated.

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Paul M: I quite sympathise with your comments regarding frame size. Being only 5'7" myself, I took a 1960 Raleigh Gazelle and a 1962 Phillips and restored them for road use. They both have 26" wheels and curved top tube frames for easier (and less painful) traffic stops. I would have rather used a DL-1, but the top tube height is too high for comfort. My grandfather had a DL-1 which he used until he was 78 years old. Being the same height as myself, he showed remarkable coordination in mounting and dismounting. As Sheldon tells us in his website, for many years frames weren't sized, so shorter riders had to fend for themselves. Even though a DL-1 is preferable, a 26" wheel Robin Hood/Gazelle type might be easier to use, depending on your height. Good luck with it.

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Yesterday I made the longest ride on my DL-1, a 62-odd mile round trip from Rio Vista to Freeport (just south of Sacramento). Although it was quite an adventure, my hands are still numb. I've realized that the main limitation of the DL-1 for long rides for me, is the inability to adjust the rake of the handlebars--they need to slope down quite a bit so that the pressure on my palms will be evenly distributed. I'll plan to get a Sports for the longer rides, and save the DL-1 for errands into town. To this end, I'd like to put a luggage rack on the back. I never was too impressed with the pressed-steel racks that I've seen on British 3-speeds, and would like to braze up a nice rack out of stainless steel tubing. Is there such a thing as a traditional British luggage/pannier rack design? I've seen nice racks on a Rene' Herse touring bike, but as long as I'll be going through the effort, would like to do it "right" (Hey, man, what's that French rack doing on your DL-1?) :-)

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I once recovered an early English saddle that was completely dried out and falling to pieces. I first took the old leather off, got it wet and flattened it out. It became the pattern I used to cut the new seat out of a piece of sole leather that I bought from a local shoe repair shop. The leather cost me $20 (not cheap) but it was first quality. After tracing the old pattern, I cut the thick leather with a hook-shaped blade (notched, really) that goes into a Stanley knife and is made for cutting linoleum. I didn't have a way to put crimped rivets in so I used bicycle fender-brace bolts that look identical from the outside, but have a nut underneath. Split rivets also would work. After the leather was on the seat, I soaked it in rubbing alcohol and went for a ride on the wet seat. It moulded into shape surprisingly well and I was able to retain a 60-70 year-old seat and the interesting frame and springs that add so much to the look of the bicycle. This may not be the best way to do it but it worked real well for me. Kevin C.

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The 1954 S-A parts manual says that in 1940, they changed from a square axle key to a round one. I just pulled apart my two earlist AW's (both without date codes, and marked "PATENT APPLIED FOR" and "PATENT") and, alas, both have round axle keys, although both have the eight splines inside the gear ring. The "PATENT APPLIED FOR" hub does have a "0" or "O" stamped inside the triangle next to the "AW", so I can fondly hope this is a 1940 hub made just after the axle key change (or that it is an earlier hub that has had a newer axle and key retrofitted during a servicing or repair).

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Kevin, A great idea! And we have a place around here where I can get some good leather! Gonna try it, thanks!

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Mark, I was once tempted to do a B72 to B66 leather transplant myself, but on closer observation, the rivet placement was different.

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Randy asked: "Is there such a thing as a traditional British luggage/pannier rack design?" Generally, no, though Claud Butler did make some sporty ones. In the three-speed era, the usual British approach was to use a "touring bag" that attached to the loops at the back of the saddle. Some of these were quite large. Brooks used to make a skillion models of 'em, but the only manufacturer still at it now is Carradice.

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Oops! My sixteen year old son discovered what a great bike my DL-1 is. He thought it was cool with its rod brakes and being English and all. He wasn't even bothered by the step through frame. I hope I won't have to hide it! On lack of height the only thing I can figure is that in the old days if one could straddle a DL-1 one could then be an officer, policeman or in the air corps.

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Several times this summer I've asked both my 10 year old daughter and eight year old son if they'd like to try one of my "old" bikes. Finally yesterday they said OK. My daughter indicated she'd try a 66 Schwinn (sorry) Breeze (she said no to the 62 Raleigh step through) and off she went. My son, who is much shorter, needed help getting up on small frame 63 Raleigh Sports. He couldn't quite keep his feet on the pedals at the bottom of the stroke, but he managed to get up and down the driveway. I remembered to him that when I was young, I used to have to find a curb or a large rock to start off and stop. He loved it.

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perhaps you could use kiddie cranks from a tandem if your rod-braker has a really tall frame. It would sure beat riding under the top tube like the kids mentioned in Columbia earlier.

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While traveling over the holiday weekend I came across an odd 3-speed: a Canadian-made "CCM." It was like a monster hybrid of a Schwinn and a Raleigh. The frame is lugged, sort of. The head tube is one piece with lugs for the top and down tubes. The bottom bracket shell is lugged, but it's the oversize American style. The seat stays bolt at the top using the seatpost binder, like a DL-1, and are pinned at the dropouts, like my Forever. The chainring is a lovely "CCM" cutout pattern, but the cranks are one-piece American style. The rear hub is a SA AW, date stamped 1967. The shifter is the real kicker -- a long, knob-ended Schwinn Orange Krate-style thing that looks like it belongs in a 60s muscle car. Beautiful big heavy-gauge chromed chain guard that's strong enough to stand on. Not a very attractive bike overall, but interesting how it picked up elements of both English and U.S. made bikes of the period. Anyone else come across these? No, I didn't buy it.

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I have a Mens 26" Robin Hood bicycle in All Chrome frame,chain guard and fenders?? 3 speed Sturmey Archer stick shifter mounted on the top frame like the old Schwinn muscle bikes. The hub is dated "67" in Excellent condition. Does anyone know of approximate value? any info would be Very appreciated.

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Keith: I come across C.C.M's all the time as they are quite common around here in British Columbia. The shifter on the bike kyou saw, myk guess is, it's aftermarket as all the ones I have seen had the usual Sturmey trigger shifter. Perhaps it came from a CCM "Mustang". They are a sort of Schwinn style kids bike made in the 60's-70's.

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Would anyone like to comment on the performance of rod brakes vs. cable/caliper? I'm considering purchasing a bike w/ the former, but I'd like to know if these brakes are going to stop sufficiently. I'm not going to be bombing through traffic, but I may hook up my daughter's bicycle trailer, and I certainly need some control over that!

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Steve has raised a very important question that deserves an absolutely unflichingly honest answer. In my opinion, rod brakes are not mechanically capable of providing the stopping power of good calipers. I've hauled both of my children on a Trail-a-Bike, and would never hitch it to my DL-1 or Forever. That being said, however, there are a number of true experts in this group who talk about adjusting rod brakes to obtain "maximum mechanical advantage." Randy, Clarence, and the rest, how do you weigh in on this?

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I'm pleased to announce that the Raleigh Wheel-Building Instructions transcription is online, along with the spoke chart. I received permission from Raleigh this morning. It's on my website at http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus . In the interim, I've reformatted it a little to more accurately reflect the "look and feel" of the original. Enjoy!

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Now I'm at the top of the list of "true experts". That'll larn me to open my mouth too often... :-) :-) For me, the key to adjusting the rod brakes is symmetry. Unlike caliper brakes, the rod brakes have no self-centering capability, so their performance is entirely dependent on careful setup. The stirrups themselves are flexible laterally, so the stirrup guides are a key part of the system. As you apply the brakes, the stirrup guide rods ramp the brake pads inwards. Adjust the stirrup guides so that they position the brake pads far enough inboards so that they contact the "flat" part of the braking surface. Make sure that the stirrups themselves are not twisted (take the brake tube nut and bolt and brake shoes off and put the stirrup on a flat surface to check), or the brake pads will be skewed as they touch the rim. If the pads are already worn unevenly, don't be afraid to trim a little off one pad so they both hit at the same time. Otherwise, you'll only flex the rim to the side and not get good braking at all. The pull of the rods must also be as symmetrical as possible with respect to the pivots--the best leverage is when a line through the pivot and rod anchor screw is at right angles to the rod itself. Take the slack out of the system--the brake pads should be almost touching the rims before you apply the brakes. Put a drop of oil on all the contact points-- pivots of bellcranks, levers and rod ends and the stirrup guide rods. As the last step in the adjustment, I loosen the brake pad mounting nuts a little, apply the brakes, and tighten the nuts carefully while the pads are in contact with the rim. On later bikes, the front brake pads are offset from the stirrup by a roughly triangular metal plate. This (I've just learned from a photocopy of an old Raleigh trading card) anti-vibration plate was a Raleigh patent, and should be placed so that the pads are behind the stirrup (as has been mentioned here before). The brake pads will actually overlap the fork blades, but the friction of the pad against the rim will actually tend to force it tighter against the rim. That's all I can think of right now. I'll mention again that I've placed a scan of the rod brake page from a 1970's Raleigh bike manual on my DL-1 page at http://www.rickadee.net/~zephyrus. Now I'll shut up and let the real experts speak. :-)

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To Paul M., Bob & Sheldon: I found your comments on tall bikes and vertically challenged people interesting. When I was 12 I had a tall Victory bike whose top bar came to my waist. I don't remember being unduly hindered by the disparity in our heights but I was known to assume some interesting positions while pedaling. My crowd would often pedal as Sheldon described i.e., with one leg through the triangle. We also doubled up with one person on each side. That made for some interesting responses from onlookers seeing two kids popping up and down on a bike. To Kevin: I marvel at the use of alchohol anywhere near one's nether region. In my mis=guided youth I once applied some to that area and was in mortal agony for some time. And thanks for sending the pumps although I have not seen them due to being closer to you than the pumps.

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The stopping power of reasonably well set up rod brakes should be more than enough for almost any situation. My DL-1 stops just fine even on hills. My Forever stops very well, comparable to caliper brakes( the regular steel ones on Raleigh "Sports" and such, not those modern ones found on Road racing bikes, you could stop a car with those!!)However, the rear rod brakes on the Indian bikes like the Roadmaster can be down right dangerous! There is insufficient leverage from the lever caused by BAD placement of the rod anchor on the cam. I found them to be awful! I wouldn't hesitate to pull my kids around behind my DL-1 though, of course not flying down hills, none of these bikes was designed for that use anyway.

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Thanks for the feedback re: rod brakes. No doubt an arcane subject, but a valuable one for those of us who prefer effective brakes. I guess it wasn't liability suits that put Raleigh et al. out of the business of rod brake bikes (was it the CSPC?). The point on hauling children, our most precious cargo, is well taken. However, I don't think anybody's kids are going to be flying down any hill on any bike trailer behind momma or dadda anytime soon! (Reminds me of a certain hill in a small Texas town I used to roll down as a kid in the classic red wagon. Looking back on it, it was no doubt extraordinarily dangerous--if you lost control of the steering, you could find yourself flung out of the wagon and onto the tarmac sans helmet and leathers. Just try explaining THAT to your mom!)

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Thanks for the reply, Sheldon. I fairly wore out a big Brooks saddle bag in my Hercules days, and still have the clip-on bag support that clips on the seatstays. I even brought a kitten home once in it. But there were times I wished for a "real" rack to strap big things on. I'll try to find a picture of a Claud Butler rack.

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Steve, I haul my kids around the the neihborhood in a bike trailer behind my DL-1 at a pretty casual pace and feel that the stopping power is very adequate. You will find that the typical clamp on attach fitting on wal-mart quality bike trailers are not an ideal fit on the thick DL-1 chainstay. I think well adjusted rod brakes are about as effective as typical Raleigh sidepulls. Before I had my first rod braked bike I thought that they would be real tire screachers with the rod actuation eliminating cable stretch along with overall beefy construction. I have yet to obtain this tire screaching performance but I have achieved vast improvements with careful adjustment and new brake pads(once bedded in). I agree with Randy's recomendation of loosening the pads and allowing them to align themselves with the rim before final tightening. What you are after is 100% contact for both pads, at the same time. It does appear that my 1964 Superbe with the dull finish (satin chrome?) rims stops a little better than my 1978 DL-1 with the shiney chrome rims.

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Last year I bought a DL-1 and in the processs of cleaning it, I replaced the petrified original brake pads with a Taiwan replacement. I didn't spend a lot of time adjusting and the result is pretty weak stopping power. I intend to improve the adjustment but I don't think the pads I have will allow me to achieve good brakes. I have found that pad quality affects the stopping potential to a greater degree than does a perfect adjustment of an average quality pad. On my better road bikes I have found that I need to spend at least $10 a wheel to get brakes that will lock up with a good pull on the lever. I used Kool Stop Reds on my latest project bike which has aluminum rims. With proper adjustment, the flatness and material of the rim, and the quality of the pads all combine to make for excellent brakes.

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To exit my neighborhood I must ride down a short steep hill with a one-way stop sign at the very bottom. My rod brake pads engage at the same time as others have described above, but I would still not trust them completely in the condition I've just described while hauling a child. But, if you're NOT going to encounter that kind of condition, then yes, I suppose the stopping power is adequate. I also prefer calipers for heavy traffic riding. Imagine the driver side car door openning 20 feet directly in front of you while you're riding 12mph or so. Wanna be on your DL-1 for that one???!!! I truly love these bikes, and ride mine all the time, but I think we need to be frank about their limitations. I'd like to hear some response to this idea: I ride my rod-brake bikes with about the same caution I use riding a good road bike with wet rims, i.e., you give yourself more room to stop. Also, those of you who've perfected your rod brakes -- can you lock the wheel and skid to a stop? Mine won't do that. Most decent caliper brake-equiped bikes I have will if they're adjusted properly and I clamp down with enough force (especially if the rims are aluminum).

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It should be obvious that English 3-speed roadsters/sports bikes are not really high-performance bikes in the vein of what most LBS's stock these days. Although these are tough bikes, most people wouldn't normally use a balloon tire bomber (especially a classic) or lightweight 10-speed for mountain bike trails--a good mountain bike is a better choice, w/ its high BB, canti or other brakes, etc. (Of course, I used these kinds of bikes on all kinds of trails before MTBs became widespread!) Since rod brake bikes were largely used as working class bikes and commuters, their performance limitations were adequate. I think the gist of what's been posted is that rod brakes are adequate for casual riding, assuming they're carefully adjusted and the pads and rims are in good shape. As far as car doors go, I stay away from them even on dry days.

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I think we all agree that brakes need to be properly adjusted to be reasonably safe. The brakes on my bikes are fairly well adjusted, but not perfect. But I'm always aware of their limitations. A problem happens when a rider who is used to a current mountain or road bike jumps on one of our "antiques" for a spin. They need to be warned. Recenty my son (8), who is used to his mountain bike took out a little Hawthorne 24" with coaster brakes. Result: dent in bike's front fender and dent in grandmother's Volvo; son just fine.

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That's right, Weimann Aqua stop shoes. I've been installing them on all my old caliper-equiped Raleigh's and Rudge's. Wet or dry they work very well. and, if you carefully prise out the rubber on rod brake shoes and work an Aqua-Stop shoe in things seem to change dramatically. Anyways, cheers!

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I paid $250.00 for an origonal Adams Trail Bike and after spending $25.00 more for an extra hitch, I thought we were all set. I was out with my son when this ill made, piece of crap came apart on us. It broke! and down to the pavement he went. This could very well have been fatal. Lucky that we were going slowly. (Think of how fast some of you go with these in tow)My son got hurt! skinned knees, elbows, arm, and a torn shirt.The worst thing aside from the blood was the horror the child experienced with having this happen. How would you like your bike frame come apart leaving you hurt on the ground? An investigation into Adams discovered that they had gone out of business and that there had been other reports of hitch problems. The area jobber only said that "It must have been the childs fault, that he did something to the cotter pin. HE DID NOT! The local shop did not offer any kind of explanation only to say that it must of been our fault. We stood there showing them the injury and the broken Trail bike. It was plain to see that they were only interested in covering their own butts. They still continued to sell the same model in the front window for a long time.A few other companies have redesigned their hitches since. I remember one brand had a recall effort and signs up in the shops. Not Adams! who was selling these everywhere. I drive by and see this old model hitch, tandem Trail Bike in the window that they are still intending to sell. The yellow paint is faded and I hope that nobody will buy it. The company went out of business leaving the dealers stuck with them.Also, you just try to sue a Canadian company after they went out of business! This is a shop that is struggling to stay in business and they overcharge in the first place. If you have two kids on the back you put more stress on the hitch part.These are made to swivel around and they can break right off. I think that the tandem model is especially unsafe. Adams Trail -a -bike is back, having been bought by Norco Products and they have introduced new models with slightly different hitches. Good Luck! If you have an older model trail bike type child trailer, get rid of it, and get a newer one or get the child onto a bike of their own when they are ready. You would think twice about using one of these if you had seen what happened to us that afternoon.

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While I am on the subject, I witnessed a baby fall in an intersection (in her baby seat) This was an old seat, with a plastic seat shell bolted onto a tubular support that fixed onto the axle. The plastic broke and the seat came off of the platform. This must have been the last point of attachment because the child fell to the pavement still strapped to the seat. I saw this 2 years ago and now when I see old baby seats at garage sales I buy them and throw them away. If you have a child, go and get the very best that you can buy. The latest one I saw has the child float along on springs! I wonder if the baby gets sick after riding on this model? The newer ones fit into a rear rack that comes with it.They cost 100.00 or more now, but safety is priceless.When you have weight bouncing along on something like metal or plastic that can get fatigued, WATCH OUT!

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Clarence, that is a true horror story. I hope your son has overcome this trauma and is comfortable with bikes again. I have a "Tag-a-Long" kid attachment for my 4 year old. It seems reliable enough so far, but your story gives me cause to rethink. Has anyone else had problems similair to Clarence's? Clarence, exactly where/how did the hitch fail?

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"Clarence, everyone is going to lunch," What are you making now? Another crazy bike project is it? Do these homemade shoes work for you? " Oh yes sir! They work great! I take out the rubber and measure it and cut new shoes and slide them into the old holder and I can stop on a dime with my Sunbeam and Raleighs!!" Where are you getting the rubber?" From the bike shop!" Although I have figured out how to get it wholesale!!"

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Clarence, I'm truly sorry you and your son had such a bad cycling experience. I feel especially bad since I recently advised someone who frequents this page to choose the Adams over the knock-offs. Both of my kids have ridden on an Adams for a little over three years, and I've never had a problem. The universal joint seems well-designed and heavy enough to stand up -- in contrast to the ones on I've seen on the Toys-R-Us knockoffs. But Adams did have a recall which affected my kids' Trail-A-Bike. The weld for the handlebar bracket was found to be defective in some tests, so they sent a notice and then a heavy clamp to replace it. I was actually kind of impressed with the way they handled it. I hope the problem you encountered is a fluke. The idea (old, based on pictures I've seen) is fabulous. They really provide kids with riding experience they could not have on their own, and they allow the child to coast while you pedal (although I know they make coaster chainrings for tandem stokers now). But your story makes me wonder whether I should put the Trail-A-Bike away and fit the tandem for children. And other reports of defects, first hand or anecdotal??

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Clarence, I appreciate what you're saying about old kid seats but I did exactly what you say we shouldn't do. That is: I found one in the garbage and re-used it. The common plastic seats (like the one I had) usually last a lot longer than the cheap metal frame/racks that they come with so I strapped this old seat to a good Blackburn rack that was properly attached to a touring-mountain bike. I used very strong metal strapping (that had been used to raise my house!!!) to hold the seat to the rack. That said, the single most important thing I did, however, was to CHECK THE SEAT before every single ride. This is the kind of pre-ride inspection that I learned as a young motorcyclist. I think it's right to dissuade casual riders from using dubious equipment but if one is prudent and knowledgeable, you can often make use of old plastic kid seats. Cheers, Philip.

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I sell and recommend Adams trailercycles, which I consider to be the second best brand on the market (after Burley.) I'd be very interested in hearing exactly which part of this hitch broke.

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Does anyone know where replacement 28", 36-hole Westwood rims (Raleigh or otherwise) can be acquired, steel or aluminum? Or is rechroming of a flakey, pitted rim the best solution? This is for a late 1970s Raleigh DL-1.